Linnets' Fans' Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stan on March 26, 2019, 08:34:15 PM

Title: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Stan on March 26, 2019, 08:34:15 PM
If you wish the club to develop and push on up the league system you need to get the community behind you. At present you are not trusted to keep the ship afloat. This may or may not be an unfounded fear but, after what happened to the club before, you cannot blame fans if they fear it may happen again.
First and foremost, you need to work with the trust. They need to be kept informed and can communicate with the fans that they represent. If that balance sheet is not as bad as it looks then you need to explain why.
You will not take this club forward without the support of the people of King's Lynn and that support will only begin by working closely with the Trust.
A lack of openness is causing considerable suspicion, negativity and concern. If you want bigger attendances that you need to build trust.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Grissles Oleary on March 26, 2019, 09:15:47 PM
If you wish the club to develop and push on up the league system you need to get the community behind you. At present you are not trusted to keep the ship afloat. This may or may not be an unfounded fear but, after what happened to the club before, you cannot blame fans if they fear it may happen again.
First and foremost, you need to work with the trust. They need to be kept informed and can communicate with the fans that they represent. If that balance sheet is not as bad as it looks then you need to explain why.
You will not take this club forward without the support of the people of King's Lynn and that support will only begin by working closely with the Trust.
A lack of openness is causing considerable suspicion, negativity and concern. If you want bigger attendances that you need to build trust.



Best post for a while Stan,but first and formost he needs to work with the fans,he can chat to 500 fans at a game,maybe arrange a chat with fans after a game,just a chat,no formal forum,people are more likely to help if help is aksed for? :dontknow:
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Mallard on March 26, 2019, 09:46:37 PM
I think running the club has turned out to be far more tricky and time consuming than the owner realised.  He does he help but will he be clever enough to see it and do something about it ?  The Trust and FOTL could help to a degree, but I feel he needs to bring a few other directors who maybe have a few quid to throw into the pot.

Reading the EDP from Saturday it seems The George at Cley hasnít been doing so well
And in fact has been closed and is due to re-open in April.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Loopy,linnet on March 27, 2019, 03:42:02 AM
Why would he want trust in the club ,itís the trusts sole intention to get their hands on the club ,itís the trust that wanted fans to stay away in first place .....donít trust the trust
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Stan on March 27, 2019, 05:04:24 AM
Why would he want trust in the club ,itís the trusts sole intention to get their hands on the club ,itís the trust that wanted fans to stay away in first place .....donít trust the trust
The " trust wanted fans to stay away"
What makes you say this?
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: m a hill on March 27, 2019, 07:02:19 AM
I have the same feeling about the trust they could do a lot more to help the club prosper instead of doing nothing ,I would like all involved in wanting the kings lynn football club to go forward to all pull together in the same direction .I do has much as I can to help I wish I could do more but at least I try if a few more did the same who could afford it  the club would be a lot healthier ,you can say what you like about about the Chairman but he does like his football and wants the club to move forward

Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Mallard on March 27, 2019, 07:52:09 AM
Iím not sure moving forward is what is best for this club.

We are losing money again this year to comepete at the right end of the table.  Imagine the cost if we were to try and compete at the top of Step 2.

I think sometimes in life you have to accept where you are in the swing of things.  This is for me is our level.

What do others think ?
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 27, 2019, 08:05:14 AM
Iím not sure moving forward is what is best for this club.

We are losing money again this year to comepete at the right end of the table.  Imagine the cost if we were to try and compete at the top of Step 2.

I think sometimes in life you have to accept where you are in the swing of things.  This is for me is our level.

What do others think ?

Careful Mallard. Rather than being realistic, you'll be getting accused of being negative and having no ambition.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Mallard on March 27, 2019, 08:16:48 AM
Call me what you will B&G.  Has Mr Cleeve got bottomless pockets ?  Once we achieve promotion is there some big pot of gold sitting awaiting us ?  How much will it then cost too challenge at Step 2 ?   Can one man really take all of that on his shoulders ? 

We saw the Boom n Bust years on Bobbinís watch.  Hurtful times when the doors were closed and the damage that did. 

I wonder  If and when we gain promotion what happens to the gates if we are mid table and going nowhere ?  Remember what happened to the gates when under Buster we were treading water for a couple of years.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 27, 2019, 09:22:42 AM
Why would he want trust in the club ,itís the trusts sole intention to get their hands on the club ,itís the trust that wanted fans to stay away in first place .....donít trust the trust


 :laughcry:

Hi Loopy. Welcome back. Not seen you for a while.

Hope you've been keeping well.

 :scarf:
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: KES80 on March 27, 2019, 10:05:26 AM
Those that refer to this club as a "Sleeping Giant" are sadly, these days completely misguided. The club's fans have been divided, in terms of what they want for years. The genuine core fan base seems to be currently 750 max with another potential 700 or so who are happy to cherry pick and come to a play-off or a cup game.
A "Sleeping Giant" would currently be being cheered on by a couple of thousand at this stage of the season.
The only things currently consistent with the "Sleeping Giant" tag are the owner's money and ambition, the management and team and the ground. I hope SC is successful, because at this stage of the game if he fails, the only thing that will be left is the ground. A ground which is 80% empty almost all of the time. Without the owner's ambition, I can see crowds of 350-500 being the norm, which might support a struggling step 3 side or a top half step 4 side.At that level of interest from the town's population surely the Council could call time on the ground, negotiate a settlement with SC and suggest the club move to Lynnsport.
Having said all of this, I am a supporter of the Trust and the Trust model and would love to see supporters more involved...but where are they when needed ?
Wake up football fans who live in the town.....it's  possibly getting to a point of "use it or lose it...possibly for good"
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Mallard on March 27, 2019, 10:16:04 AM
KES. Donít forget we only pay a peppercorn rent at The Walks, would somewhere like LynnSport offer such a deal ?   Is LynnSport up to step 3 in terms of ground grading ?

In terms of numbers through the gate. How does this season compare to when he gained promotion from step 4, Admin?
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Grissles Oleary on March 27, 2019, 10:42:36 AM
Why would he want trust in the club ,itís the trusts sole intention to get their hands on the club ,itís the trust that wanted fans to stay away in first place .....donít trust the trust


Welcome back loopy, same old Tosh you no,  but welcome back.  :laughcry: :laughcry: :laughcry:
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 27, 2019, 10:46:37 AM
............................ at this stage of the game if he fails, the only thing that will be left is the ground.

................but who'll be left with it?
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: KES80 on March 27, 2019, 11:55:44 AM
Yes, exactly B and G. A ground that has some wonderful history attached to it, but on the other hand is a real financial burden to maintain and has a capacity ten times of what would be required ?
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: birch95 on March 27, 2019, 12:07:59 PM
when are you lot happy :dontknow: another decent side, another promising season but yet again doom and gloom with general swipes at mr cleeve :banghead;
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Nemesis on March 27, 2019, 01:11:38 PM
Why would he want trust in the club ,itís the trusts sole intention to get their hands on the club ,itís the trust that wanted fans to stay away in first place .....donít trust the trust
From the man who said
"I have always believed never trust a liar and I wouldn't trust cleeve ,hope the trust on standby you got a chin mark 2"

Do you trust anyone?
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 27, 2019, 01:59:25 PM
Years ago, I supported a Club that had an ex professional who was a fantastic Manager. He had put together a team that was a delight to watch, and we were having a very promising season.

Unfortunately something then happened, which could probably have been avoided if supporters were aware of the situation at the time, and action had been taken sooner.

The result was I and many others were left with no team to watch.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Grissles Oleary on March 27, 2019, 02:07:37 PM
when are you lot happy :dontknow: another decent side, another promising season but yet again doom and gloom with general swipes at mr cleeve :banghead;

All well and good providing we have a team to watch next season?  IC has done a great job taking over from from Backie and Fryatt, who pulled the team around from what looked like relegation prospects into challengers? Are we playing outside our means again?  :dontknow:
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Mallard on March 27, 2019, 02:31:14 PM
B&G. All the warnings signis were there and many were warning about it, while others buried their head in the sand.  Then were all up in arms about it when it all went tits up.

In the Championship we have the Bís (Bolton, Blackburn and Brum) all spending far more on players wages than they receive in income.

Wouldnít it be good to have a full board of directors who ran the Club within its means?
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 27, 2019, 02:53:20 PM
.....others buried their head in the sand.  Then were all up in arms about it when it all went tits up.

Can't see that happening again Mallard, can you?   :dontknow:
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Mallard on March 27, 2019, 03:07:32 PM
Reading certain comments on here, Iím not sure people ever learn lessons from the past.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: m a hill on March 27, 2019, 03:32:00 PM
Unbelievable pessimistic dribble
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Grissles Oleary on March 27, 2019, 03:37:54 PM
Unbelievable pessimistic dribble

So the club is solvent?  :dontknow:
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: westlynnmike on March 27, 2019, 04:08:39 PM
I have the same feeling about the trust they could do a lot more to help the club prosper instead of doing nothing ,I would like all involved in wanting the kings lynn football club to go forward to all pull together in the same direction .I do has much as I can to help I wish I could do more but at least I try if a few more did the same who could afford it  the club would be a lot healthier ,you can say what you like about about the Chairman but he does like his football and wants the club to move forward
Malcolm Hill, quote: "I have the same feeling about the trust they could do a lot more to help the club prosper instead of doing nothing,"

SC has said many time he does not want the help from the Trust. Too many strings attached to any Trust involvement. He has the FOTL.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Linnet1993 on March 27, 2019, 05:09:09 PM
Amazing how this forum can turn a superb week for the club into a week long debate across several threads about absolute rubbish. :comeon:
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Grissles Oleary on March 27, 2019, 06:00:16 PM
Amazing how this forum can turn a superb week for the club into a week long debate across several threads about absolute rubbish. :comeon:


Everyone has stated what a great thing is happening on the pitch, just some people are concerned about what is happening off the pitch?  :dontknow:
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: long suffering linnet on March 27, 2019, 08:43:56 PM
Those that refer to this club as a "Sleeping Giant" are sadly, these days completely misguided. The club's fans have been divided, in terms of what they want for years. The genuine core fan base seems to be currently 750 max with another potential 700 or so who are happy to cherry pick and come to a play-off or a cup game.
A "Sleeping Giant" would currently be being cheered on by a couple of thousand at this stage of the season.
The only things currently consistent with the "Sleeping Giant" tag are the owner's money and ambition, the management and team and the ground. I hope SC is successful, because at this stage of the game if he fails, the only thing that will be left is the ground. A ground which is 80% empty almost all of the time. Without the owner's ambition, I can see crowds of 350-500 being the norm, which might support a struggling step 3 side or a top half step 4 side.At that level of interest from the town's population surely the Council could call time on the ground, negotiate a settlement with SC and suggest the club move to Lynnsport.
Having said all of this, I am a supporter of the Trust and the Trust model and would love to see supporters more involved...but where are they when needed ?
Wake up football fans who live in the town.....it's  possibly getting to a point of "use it or lose it...possibly for good"
Our average gate is better than 12 of the conferance South and I'm pretty sure the current squad is good enough to cut it a league up so let's not be all doom and gloom.There are clubs much smaller than ours that have played at a better level than us for a long time and if you have no ambition to progress then people lose interest.Not sure if I would attend if the height of our ambition was to remain in the Southern League.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: KES80 on March 27, 2019, 09:18:17 PM
I agree fully with that last sentence....there is no point in existing to tread water with no ambition for promotion. My post wasn't intended to be doom and gloom, but more a rallying cry for people to get to the ground at this crucial stage. Costs for Lynn are higher than many due to geographical location......surely these can be met to a greater degree by attendances.......what is the population of Lynn and the surrounds these days.......surely at least 1,000 can make it to the home games when the team are vying for promotion.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Stan on March 28, 2019, 05:35:32 AM
With regards to the dodgy looking balance sheet, if as Tony suggests, the main creditor is the chairman himself, then there is probably less to concern fans than if there are other creditors like the taxman etc. I'm not sure what the club's balance sheet assets are but I imagine it is mainly the goodwill that the chairman acquired when he bought the club from Buster. The way things appear at present then is that it would be madness for the chairman to initiate a liquidation as he would lose a fortune. The only way he would get his money back would be if the goodwill has increased since he took over - in accounting terms it probably has  - and he sells the club for more than he paid for it.
So, on reflection I think fans can rest easy as the probable worst case scenario is for the chairman to sell the club not dissolve it. It would be financial madness for the chairman to pull out now, unless someone offered him substantially more for the club than he paid for it.
It would help if the chairman would clarify this to allay fans' suspicions but the best thing that concerned fans can do to help the club is to turn up in vast numbers.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Stan on March 28, 2019, 05:39:17 AM
Cleeve has shown massive financial commitment to the club and it is a shame that so called Lynn supporters won't do the same by turning up each week.
If attendances rose to 1,000 this club would fly up to the National league.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Mallard on March 28, 2019, 07:30:23 AM
Stan at what point does a businessman decide enough is enough and decides bankroll a business any further ?  The MO that he using clearly is not working.   We currently in the same league as when he took over and with a big hole in the balance sheet. As for a new Ďbuyerí come the end of this current FY he could be looking for 500k to recoup what he has paid out to buy and run this club.  With little to no assets in the Club that is a heck of a lot of goodwill. 
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Stan on March 28, 2019, 08:10:35 AM
All fair points Mallard but selling the club is a far better option than liquidation, wouldn't you agree?
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Mallard on March 28, 2019, 08:32:01 AM
100% Stan.  I just think the expectation level for the price might take some obtaining. Canít see the EBITDA coming into play on any sale.
 Stan in truth I just wish the guy would swallow his pride or whatever he has a problem with and reach out to any Ďinvestorsí who could line his load.   The guy is not all bad and itís clear he has a real passion for the club, and some decent ideas.  This club of ours has so much to offer.  Stan, do you see it working as a one man operation ? The trouble is the deeper in debt it gets the less options will be available
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Stan on March 28, 2019, 08:46:27 AM
100% Stan.  I just think the expectation level for the price might take some obtaining. Canít see the EBITDA coming into play on any sale.
 Stan in truth I just wish the guy would swallow his pride or whatever he has a problem with and reach out to any Ďinvestorsí who could line his load.   The guy is not all bad and itís clear he has a real passion for the club, and some decent ideas.  This club of ours has so much to offer.  Stan, do you see it working as a one man operation ? The trouble is the deeper in debt it gets the less options will be available
I'm with you all the way Mallard but this discussion started when a poster said he wouldn't come to watch Lynn because he feared that the club was heading for liquidation and Tony posted details of the latest Balance sheet. On reflection,  liquidation seems an unlikely outcome so I cannot see why fans would stay it away as this only makes matters worse. Yes Cleeve needs support but that support should also come from the fans by turning up in larger numbers than they do at present. The fans are out there.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Mallard on March 28, 2019, 08:53:43 AM
Individual Ďinvestorsí and fan groups, for me would be the the way forward.  The 2 Ďsupportersí organisations and Stephen Cleeve have one big thing in common.  The well being of the club.  It is time for all to come together and find a way forward to make the thing work.  Factor in a few local business people, like yourself Stan to get onboard and the thing could work. 
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: macfleetwood1 on March 28, 2019, 08:55:31 AM
Many of the posts are critical of the lack of interest from local people not turning up to no longer watch Lynn, with the exception of a few juicy cup ties etc, the problem is this, everyone on this site does go to watch Lynn anyway, you should be aiming most of these comments at the local media, not just a dozen people on here. As for the trust , read their charter on the home page, are they sticking to it? I think not.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Stan on March 28, 2019, 09:28:17 AM
If an extra 300 turned up for each home game then that's £80,000 extra income per season. It wouldn't take long for that balance sheet to pick up and we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Blue Moon on March 28, 2019, 10:14:55 AM
All we need for that to happen Stan is to have a half decent team with a nice blend of youth and experienced players, a decent manager who knows the game and has played at a high level, a nice playing surface to encourage good football for the fans to enjoy, a safe comfortable stadium with seating areas and cover from inclement weather, no other higher level football teams within 40 miles ....
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Mallard on March 28, 2019, 10:16:09 AM
40% increase is a big overnight ask Stan
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Stan on March 28, 2019, 10:33:23 AM
40% increase is a big overnight ask Stan
You can't achieve this overnight Mallard
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Stan on March 28, 2019, 10:53:47 AM
All we need for that to happen Stan is to have a half decent team with a nice blend of youth and experienced players, a decent manager who knows the game and has played at a high level, a nice playing surface to encourage good football for the fans to enjoy, a safe comfortable stadium with seating areas and cover from inclement weather, no other higher level football teams within 40 miles ....
Irony noted Blue Moon.
I can't speak for others but I love watching Lynn on a Saturday. If you offered me a season ticket for any football league side or a season ticket for Lynn, I would take Lynn every time. I have a 60 mile round trip to home games but wouldn't miss it for anything.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Mallard on March 28, 2019, 10:57:14 AM
With you there Stan.  Nothing beats The Walks on a Saturday afternoon or indeed a Tuesday night. 3 hour round trip for me these days so donít get there as often as I would like.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Mallard on March 28, 2019, 12:23:35 PM
40% increase is a big overnight ask Stan
You can't achieve this overnight Mallard

Putting a stop to those you claim to support the club then donít pay to get in should add a few K to the coffers Stan. 
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Stan on March 28, 2019, 03:15:14 PM
40% increase is a big overnight ask Stan
You can't achieve this overnight Mallard

Putting a stop to those you claim to support the club then donít pay to get in should add a few K to the coffers Stan.
???
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Grissles Oleary on March 28, 2019, 03:16:39 PM
Just the 11.6% down from last season returning would be a start?  :scarf: :scarf: :scarf:
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Stan on March 28, 2019, 04:02:31 PM
Just the 11.6% down from last season returning would be a start?  :scarf: :scarf: :scarf:
From what S2S has said, I wouldn't put money on it Griss. If his views are typical then it looks like some fans are prepared to sabotage their own club. The idea that people would deliberately choose a course of action that could end up causing damage to something they value defies belief.
Strange times we live in Griss!
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: JJF182 on March 28, 2019, 04:33:10 PM
Just the 11.6% down from last season returning would be a start?  :scarf: :scarf: :scarf:
From what S2S has said, I wouldn't put money on it Griss. If his views are typical then it looks like some fans are prepared to sabotage their own club. The idea that people would deliberately choose a course of action that could end up causing damage to something they value defies belief.
Strange times we live in Griss!

Perhaps some of us aren't sabotaging 'our' own club! I got fed up of increasing ticket prices and food and drink prices and found other things to do on a Saturday, now running my own team and that's my fix of football every week. Easily done.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: admin on March 28, 2019, 08:56:48 PM

Stephen Cleeve
‏ @StephenCleeve

Just finished my programme notes which cover the financial issues around the club so if you want to know the actual state of play buy a programme on Saturday #bringamateforthegate
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeveereere
Post by: m a hill on March 28, 2019, 09:06:11 PM
There you go go to the match and buy a programme and all your question will be answered ,and for all those people who are staying away for whatever the reason I really feel sorry for you you donít no what you are missing
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: sworn 2 secrets on March 28, 2019, 10:09:39 PM
I don't think the real state of financial affairs concerning the club are going to be found in the match day program?
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Nemesis on March 28, 2019, 11:13:33 PM
Quite possibly it will raise more questions than it answers but at least it is a kind of dialogue regarding the finances and that has to be a step forward of some kind given what happened to the old club.
I remember the days when the full accounts used to appear in the Lynn News and I believe Buster also published accounts and forecasts after his first year. It will be great if Mr Cleeve can do something similar.
All credit to Stan and this forum for making it happen.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: LUFC1992KLFC on March 29, 2019, 12:22:34 PM
There is always potential for unwanted worry or exuberance when you simply publish numbers.
In most cases you need an accountant to talk you through, be it healthy or unhealthy looking numbers.
I'm a business man and would never trust my own judgement on an a simple spread sheet.

I find it amusing when it comes to money we should or shouldn't spend.
Buster was lambasted for not investing in the team.
Cleeve is having a go. Guess what? He is getting stick from some quarters.

Unless we as supporters want to put real money up (THOUSANDS), we should enjoy the entertainment that those who have invested feel they can provide us.

In reality I would love to be going to the game for £10 not £13
Then again I would rather pay £13 than having to work continuously on fundraising events and still have to be paying into those fundraising events to raise money to operate the club. If we went down this route I would guess a few would be paying in time and money much much more.
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: Grissles Oleary on March 29, 2019, 04:13:19 PM
Regardless of what you pay to get in unless you have a very rich owner then fundraising is always a must at our level. Irrespective of what is raised through different activities it is another way of trying to get some community involvement, which I feel is sadly lacking at the moment?  :dontknow:
Title: Re: Dear Mr Cleeve
Post by: LUFC1992KLFC on March 29, 2019, 04:31:48 PM
Tend to agree with that but always been that way.
The volunteer cycle changes regularly.
At different stages over 40 yrs I have helped the club one way or another. Not done anything for probably 20 yrs. Other than sponsor matches.
I have seen people come with great ideas and enthusiasm only to get bored or realise their way isn't as easy as they thought. Wherever you get a voluntary committee you get conflict also.
The Bobbins had some great volunteers. However...ÖÖÖÖ..
Its not all the current chairman's fault or his predecessor, its just churn.