Linnets' Fans' Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Blue_and_Gold on March 15, 2020, 11:26:10 AM

Title: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 15, 2020, 11:26:10 AM
.......3 options as far as I can see:

1) The positions stand as they are today.

2) Decided on points v games played.

3) All leagues for 2019/20 are null and void.


Obviously option 2 would Favour the Linnets.

Imo, as I think its the most fair option overall, I'll go for option 3.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Stan on March 15, 2020, 11:30:40 AM
.......3 options as far as I can see:

1) The positions stand as they are today.

2) Decided on points v games played.

3) All leagues for 2019/20 are null and void.


Obviously option 2 would Favour the Linnets.

Imo, as I think its the most fair option overall, 'll go for option 3.
Why do think that number 3 is the fairest?
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Mallard on March 15, 2020, 11:44:45 AM
Need to look higher up the pyramid.  EFL Div 2 ran one team short this season following the demise of Bury.   This caused issues as every week one team in this League was inactive.  So it should follow a team will move up from the National League.  In turn it would mean one team from either the North or the South National League would move up.

Listening to Stephen Cleeve last night he feels there should be full promotion and relegation based on average points v games played. 

Some important to decisions to be made.  Again the Chairman wants these decisions made quickly. 
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Stan on March 15, 2020, 11:47:33 AM
.......3 options as far as I can see:

1) The positions stand as they are today.

2) Decided on points v games played.

3) All leagues for 2019/20 are null and void.


Obviously option 2 would Favour the Linnets.

Imo, as I think its the most fair option overall, 'll go for option 3.
Why do think that number 3 is the fairest?
I would still like to know why B & G thinks that option 3 is the fairest. I'm sure I'm not alone.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Mallard on March 15, 2020, 12:05:03 PM
I wonder if the FA called the season as null
And void could the money not used as Prize money, parachute payments not be used to support clubs further down the pyramid who may find themselves in financial difficulties.    Reading todayís NLP there is a general consensus that this will be the case going forward., and Clubs will struggle to survive

Just food for thought
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: KES80 on March 15, 2020, 12:59:28 PM
Well Mall, if Lynn should play Gloucester on Monday night,and lose, then Lynn' s points per game  ratio falls below that of York.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Stan on March 15, 2020, 01:44:15 PM
Curious that B & G won't explain why he thinks option 3 is the fairest. I've just been accused of being a Guiseley supporter because based on new video evidence I think the ref got it right with the Henderson penalty. The same logic would suggest  B & G is anti-Lynn unless he can justify his belief that option 3 is the fairest!
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Mick on March 15, 2020, 01:54:11 PM
Well Mall, if Lynn should play Gloucester on Monday night,and lose, then Lynn' s points per game  ratio falls below that of York.

If we lost to Gloucester. Yes. By 1/50th of a point per game. York 1.9411 Lynn  1.9393. Best we don't go to Gloucester
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: MARCUS ROSE on March 15, 2020, 02:06:13 PM
Have to agree with B&G on this one. Option 3 the fairest.  You can't relegate sides with approx. 10 games each left to play.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Loughborough Linnet on March 15, 2020, 02:11:08 PM
Or 4) extend the season into September, and delay the start of the following season until October, having midweek games every-week all season.

Only works if its business as usual by August/September.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Stan on March 15, 2020, 02:14:07 PM
Have to agree with B&G on this one. Option 3 the fairest.  You can't relegate sides with approx. 10 games each left to play.
At least you've given a reason and your point is a fair one. Could you argue that depriving teams at the top of not being promoted is a bit like relegating them from the division that they were likely to be in. Isn't their loss as great as the loss of a relegated team?
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Mallard on March 15, 2020, 02:15:23 PM
Lough,  thatís not an option as players are out of contract at the end of April ( Stephen Cleeve on Radio Norfolk last evening).  The Chairman said extending the season beyond April
Wasnít an option.  I take it B&G must have listened in to Radio
Norfolk as the 3 options he has posted are the 3 given by Stephen Cleeve.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 15, 2020, 02:20:40 PM
I take it B&G must have listened in to Radio
Norfolk as the 3 options he has posted are the 3 given by Stephen Cleeve.

Yes Mallard, that's correct.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Mallard on March 15, 2020, 02:27:54 PM
If the Premier League relegate clubs without all fixtures being played they could leave themselves open to all kinds of legal issues.  At that level relegation is massive cash negative.   So could well understand that if they canít finish the season they will declare it null & void.  As a Norwich follower I wouldnít be unhappy with that.

However that could have the knock on affect right the way through.  Can see arguments for and against declaring the season null & void.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Stan on March 15, 2020, 02:36:57 PM
If the Premier League relegate clubs without all fixtures being played they could leave themselves open to all kinds of legal issues.  At that level relegation is massive cash negative.   So could well understand that if they canít finish the season they will declare it null & void.  As a Norwich follower I wouldnít be unhappy with that.

However that could have the knock on affect right the way through.  Can see arguments for and against declaring the season null & void.
Fair point
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 15, 2020, 02:55:06 PM
On the theme of us all bring in this together, if the season ends now with no relegations, that would mean there would be Millions of pounds in Parachute payments not being paid out.

Would the Powers that be allow this money to filter down to non league to assist with the financial problems most will almost certainly face? Apparently over £240 million was paid out last season to relegated clubs, plus an additional 100k "solidarity" payments.

How to solve the financial problem of non league clubs at a stroke of a pen?
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Bluboy on March 15, 2020, 03:02:07 PM
This is a tough one  and to be honest ( all of us ) if we was in say Farsley position we wonít give to hoots what happened next , current form clubs below us may say they could catch us and looking at top ten playoffs could be anyoneís , also I know thereís 2/3 players holding off signing contracts as to see what league weíll be in ... them players may well leave if season null void  ,    , me personally option 3  gutting as it is  , as next season may see us not hit this seasons form ... all I know is I wouldnít want to be the one who makes the decision... this could roll n roll with legal matters etc
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Mallard on March 15, 2020, 03:05:44 PM
Clubs might spout the party line of being in it together.   I suggested this idea on an earlier post but it has pitfalls.  Money comes from The Premier League not the FA.   Pro club ( many who are losing serious millions) will want every penny of parachute payments to mount a challenge to get back to the promised land of the Premiership.

Looking a long way forward.  If the FA have no income from their  flagship earner ( FA Cup final). What affect will this have on Non League Clubs in terms of earnings from an FA Cup run.

I do wonder if this will be a big wake up call for clubs paying out huge wages to players in the Non League game.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Loughborough Linnet on March 15, 2020, 03:05:59 PM
Lough,  thatís not an option as players are out of contract at the end of April ( Stephen Cleeve on Radio Norfolk last evening).  The Chairman said extending the season beyond April
Wasnít an option.  I take it B&G must have listened in to Radio
Norfolk as the 3 options he has posted are the 3 given by Stephen Cleeve.

Not an option as things are at the minute, and wouldnít be with this squad as you point out, as their contracts end at April, or early May with Play-off extensions. Itís conceivable next seasons squad could be asked to finish this season, as any other option leaves the leagues open to suits, from clubs relegated/not promoted. (Complicated somewhat further by the void caused by Buryís demise.) Essentially next years pre-season would be finishing this season.

Also further complicated by the need for the pyramid to have a unified(ish) start date for 20/21, certainly couldnít start at one tier until all tiers have finished. If the EFL hold off, until the Prem is sorted, then the National will have to as well.

And they might be waiting for UEFA to take the lead on determining what happens with champions league, until domestic leagues are sorted. Itís been mooted that if the Euroís move, then those dates freed up through not having the summer tournament are when the professional seasonís will finish. If thatís the case, the National would find it very hard to legally justify not doing the same.

Complicated further by professional contracts only expiring on the 30th June.

Quite a cascade affect.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Mallard on March 15, 2020, 03:22:43 PM
Excellent post Lough and many valid points.   Good to see on here.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: KES80 on March 16, 2020, 07:51:22 AM
.......3 options as far as I can see:

1) The positions stand as they are today.

2) Decided on points v games played.

3) All leagues for 2019/20 are null and void.


Obviously option 2 would Favour the Linnets.

Imo, as I think its the most fair option overall, I'll go for option 3.






I would like to suggest a 4th option. The most any team has played is 34 games I believe. Bring each team up to that using the points per game ratio....a small change in points for each club. Make that the starting point for next season and aggregate next season's points on top, so that at the end the table shows the results for 76 games
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Stan on March 16, 2020, 08:44:25 AM
.......3 options as far as I can see:

1) The positions stand as they are today.

2) Decided on points v games played.

3) All leagues for 2019/20 are null and void.


Obviously option 2 would Favour the Linnets.

Imo, as I think its the most fair option overall, I'll go for option 3.






I would like to suggest a 4th option. The most any team has played is 34 games I believe. Bring each team up to that using the points per game ratio....a small change in points for each club. Make that the starting point for next season and aggregate next season's points on top, so that at the end the table shows the results for 76 games
That's a very sensible idea. Have the leagues ever been stopped early before, I wonder, and if so what happened then?
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Stan on March 16, 2020, 08:56:59 AM
One idea from the premier League is that Liverpool are to be awarded the title, no teams to be relegated and Leeds and West Brom promoted. The premier League will be larger. Presumably, league 1 top two will also go up with no relegations. If that approach is followed down the leagues then surely KL will be promoted?
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Mallard on March 16, 2020, 09:47:11 AM
In season 39/40 the Leagues were abandoned after each team had played 3 games. With GB declaring war on Germany.   The League resumed again for the 46/47 season.

The idea of no relegation but Promotion might well be a sensible outcome.    Will give a feel good factor to a lot of Clubs and supporters.  Not to mention much needed increase in revenue for next season.

Iíd vote for that one any day.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Loughborough Linnet on March 16, 2020, 10:18:05 AM
In season 39/40 the Leagues were abandoned after each team had played 3 games. With GB declaring war on Germany.   The League resumed again for the 46/47 season.

The idea of no relegation but Promotion might well be a sensible outcome.    Will give a feel good factor to a lot of Clubs and supporters.  Not to mention much needed increase in revenue for next season.

Iíd vote for that one any day.

Promotions without relegations, with the now wonky leagues being sorted out by having additional drop spots in the next year, does seem like the best solution overall, now that Iíve seen it.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Stan on March 16, 2020, 10:41:36 AM
In season 39/40 the Leagues were abandoned after each team had played 3 games. With GB declaring war on Germany.   The League resumed again for the 46/47 season.

The idea of no relegation but Promotion might well be a sensible outcome.    Will give a feel good factor to a lot of Clubs and supporters.  Not to mention much needed increase in revenue for next season.

Iíd vote for that one any day.

Promotions without relegations, with the now wonky leagues being sorted out by having additional drop spots in the next year, does seem like the best solution overall, now that Iíve seen it.
What's the problem with it Loughborough?
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: daleh on March 16, 2020, 10:42:22 AM
Option 5..Stop speculating about things we have no knowledge about. It's bad enough seeing Wayne Rooney's stupid and brainless medical opinion in the press. Phew...I feel better now...Thanks.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Loughborough Linnet on March 16, 2020, 01:54:02 PM
In season 39/40 the Leagues were abandoned after each team had played 3 games. With GB declaring war on Germany.   The League resumed again for the 46/47 season.

The idea of no relegation but Promotion might well be a sensible outcome.    Will give a feel good factor to a lot of Clubs and supporters.  Not to mention much needed increase in revenue for next season.

Iíd vote for that one any day.

Promotions without relegations, with the now wonky leagues being sorted out by having additional drop spots in the next year, does seem like the best solution overall, now that Iíve seen it.
What's the problem with it Loughborough?

Didnít say there was one.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: TonyM on March 16, 2020, 02:10:08 PM
I can't see any fairer option than to declare the 2019-20 season void, particularly at non-league level.  Just won't be practical to ask non-league to play on into June or even July and given that currently no-one has 'clinched' a promotion can't claim to have lost what hasn't yet earned. 

Also can't see the promotion but no relegation being a practical solution, all it does is increase the Premier League (and reduces the teams in the lowest league it would apply to) when they already complain about the number of games they play.

Bury situation is a difficult one and think fairest would be to carry on with the status quo for another year, although given the rumoured state of finances at a number other league clubs the impact of this virus may create further gaps in the pyramid.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Grissles Oleary on March 16, 2020, 03:12:02 PM
I say play on,you make up your own mind whether you go to watch or not,we are all adults and can make up our own minds,you could catch this **** standing next to someone in the chip shop?  I myself being put in the class as the most vulnerable to catch the disease am doing all I can to live life.At a game you are out in the open air,not enclosed,so long as people don't cough and spit all over you it will be okay,didn't see too many jousts being called off during the Black death? :dontknow:
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Stan on March 16, 2020, 03:54:19 PM
I can't see any fairer option than to declare the 2019-20 season void, particularly at non-league level.  Just won't be practical to ask non-league to play on into June or even July and given that currently no-one has 'clinched' a promotion can't claim to have lost what hasn't yet earned. 

Also can't see the promotion but no relegation being a practical solution, all it does is increase the Premier League (and reduces the teams in the lowest league it would apply to) when they already complain about the number of games they play.

Bury situation is a difficult one and think fairest would be to carry on with the status quo for another year, although given the rumoured state of finances at a number other league clubs the impact of this virus may create further gaps in the pyramid.
I read it in the Mail and the Telegraph so presumably it's being considered but who can trust the media these days.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Stan on March 16, 2020, 03:57:34 PM
I can't see any fairer option than to declare the 2019-20 season void, particularly at non-league level.  Just won't be practical to ask non-league to play on into June or even July and given that currently no-one has 'clinched' a promotion can't claim to have lost what hasn't yet earned. 

Also can't see the promotion but no relegation being a practical solution, all it does is increase the Premier League (and reduces the teams in the lowest league it would apply to) when they already complain about the number of games they play.

Bury situation is a difficult one and think fairest would be to carry on with the status quo for another year, although given the rumoured state of finances at a number other league clubs the impact of this virus may create further gaps in the pyramid.
I read it in the Mail and the Telegraph so presumably it's being considered but who can trust the media these days.
As an idea it seems fair to those who have played well and achieved points likely to get them promoted with no impact on relegation. No one loses out with this method.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: TonyM on March 16, 2020, 05:19:20 PM
I say play on,you make up your own mind whether you go to watch or not,we are all adults and can make up our own minds,you could catch this **** standing next to someone in the chip shop?  I myself being put in the class as the most vulnerable to catch the disease am doing all I can to live life.At a game you are out in the open air,not enclosed,so long as people don't cough and spit all over you it will be okay,didn't see too many jousts being called off during the Black death? :dontknow:

The football can't carry on for two reasons.  Firstly individual teams will continue to be affected ie Gloucester hence tonight's postponement, obviously if you know when these random ongoing self-isolations will cease please can you let the FA know as I am sure it will help with their planning.  Secondly, as you have demonstrated, some members of the public will not be able to follow advice given to vulnerable groups of not putting themselves at risk and as the health services (in the widest sense) need this to be a longer, but relatively less intense outbreak it can't be left to an 'individual's choice', it's about what impact that individual's decisions have for the wider population.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: TonyM on March 16, 2020, 05:26:25 PM
As an idea it seems fair to those who have played well and achieved points likely to get them promoted with no impact on relegation. No one loses out with this method.

At some point there will be a league with less teams - do they not lose out?  I really don't think you can talk about 'likely', I would rather deal in what is, and the simple truth is without completing a season it is unfair to assume anything so unless any side has already achieved automatic promotion we should just start again in August.  This is doubly true at step 2 and below where teams have far less control over their (part-time) players.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Mallard on March 16, 2020, 06:05:24 PM
https://www.thenationalleague.org.uk/national-league-statement-national-league-competit-61601


Talk about kicking the can down the Road
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Non League on March 16, 2020, 06:08:24 PM
The league will eventually get cancelled IMO. Won't resume till around start of June at earliest.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Stan on March 16, 2020, 06:35:10 PM
As an idea it seems fair to those who have played well and achieved points likely to get them promoted with no impact on relegation. No one loses out with this method.

At some point there will be a league with less teams - do they not lose out?  I really don't think you can talk about 'likely', I would rather deal in what is, and the simple truth is without completing a season it is unfair to assume anything so unless any side has already achieved automatic promotion we should just start again in August.  This is doubly true at step 2 and below where teams have far less control over their (part-time) players.
Liverpool are 25 points clear Tony. I think most people would argue that Liverpool winning the Prem is likely.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Stan on March 16, 2020, 06:54:22 PM
As an idea it seems fair to those who have played well and achieved points likely to get them promoted with no impact on relegation. No one loses out with this method.

At some point there will be a league with less teams - do they not lose out?  I really don't think you can talk about 'likely', I would rather deal in what is, and the simple truth is without completing a season it is unfair to assume anything so unless any side has already achieved automatic promotion we should just start again in August.  This is doubly true at step 2 and below where teams have far less control over their (part-time) players.
Liverpool are 25 points clear Tony. I think most people would argue that Liverpool winning the Prem is likely.
Teams who are currently in promotion positions have a medium to higher chance of promotion and denying them promotion is clearly more significant than denying those who have slimmer chances. So, it seems fairly reasonable that those currently in promotion places should be promoted. Neither method is perfect but I would argue that those currently in promotion positions lose more by not being promoted than those currently outside promotion positions. Take a points per game average.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: dillydilly on March 16, 2020, 07:10:35 PM
Hey, Daleh.... Havenít read Rooneyís medical advice, but I can imagine !.....  and, Non League, June, yeah, but what year ?
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: Squire of Langham on March 16, 2020, 08:17:24 PM
There is no way another ball can be kicked at The Walks until the Emergency Services are again allowed to attend mass events.  Just think if a supporter has a heart attack or a fire breaks out.  No owner of any club can stage a match knowing that the emergency services will not be attending their ground if required.
Title: Re: If the season finishes early.......
Post by: TonyM on March 24, 2020, 05:17:50 PM
Quick update on non-league matters
https://www.betvictoristhmian.co.uk/isthmian-league-statement-24th-march-2020-61677

Still needs FA ratification but if steps 3 and below of the non-league pyramid are calling a halt to the season, I think the pressure will be on to extend this to at least step 2 as the majority of clubs will be under the same pressure in terms of player contracts etc.  Slightly different at National League level with full time players and a TV deal that will cloud the issue but does at last appear to be some movement in terms of making decisions.

Next issue will be if there is then any movement (promotion/relegation) or not and if there is what basis is to be used.
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