Linnets' Fans' Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Blue_and_Gold on March 17, 2020, 10:47:34 AM

Title: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 17, 2020, 10:47:34 AM
I think many are now expecting the season to finish early one way or another, and not to start up again in a couple of weeks time.

If that is the case there's certain problems that will be obvious, such as the loss of match day revenue. The knock on effect could be huge. Hopefully finances are in place to meet the financial commitments until the end of the season, but what position will we (and other Clubs) be in to kick off the new season, irrespective of the level we will be playing at?

Lots to think about.













Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 17, 2020, 11:16:49 AM
I think many are now expecting the season to finish early one way or another, and not to start up again in a couple of weeks time.

If that is the case there's certain problems that will be obvious, such as the loss of match day revenue. The knock on effect could be huge. Hopefully finances are in place to meet the financial commitments until the end of the season, but what position will we (and other Clubs) be in to kick off the new season, irrespective of the level we will be playing at?

Lots to think about.
Government found money for the bankers. It will tell you masses about this government's attitude to the "smaller" people in the way they address these financial consequences.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 17, 2020, 11:31:52 AM
I wonder if the trust would be prepared to help the club out. After all, this situation isn't down to poor planning or management but unforeseen circumstances beyond the planning and control of anyone.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 17, 2020, 12:36:32 PM
Government announcing later plans to help Companies and individuals through this crisis.  Hopefully the youngsters will have things like their mortgages frozen.   Not sure how far down the list Non League Football Clubs will come.  My guess is a long way.

Think The Chairman will be making plans of his own to keep this club alive, going forward  Hopefully he is not going to rely on handouts from Boris.   We have an average gate of 1400 who hopefully can help
If and when they are able.  Plus players and other staff members  who have had good money out of the club will also play their part in helping the Club come through this.  Factor in The Chairman, The Trust and The Friends plus The  FA Support.   If all of those mentioned come to the table then we have a good chance.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 17, 2020, 12:54:38 PM
Government announcing later plans to help Companies and individuals through this crisis.  Hopefully the youngsters will have things like their mortgages frozen.   Not sure how far down the list Non League Football Clubs will come.  My guess is a long way.

Think The Chairman will be making plans of his own to keep this club alive, going forward  Hopefully he is not going to rely on handouts from Boris.   We have an average gate of 1400 who hopefully can help
If and when they are able.  Plus players and other staff members  who have had good money out of the club will also play their part in helping the Club come through this.  Factor in The Chairman, The Trust and The Friends plus The  FA Support.   If all of those mentioned come to the table then we have a good chance.
I wouldn't describe help from the government as a "handout" Mallard. Makes it sound like it's his money. There's plenty of money in our system if the government chooses to redistribute some of it. Reece-mogg and co: it's about time you paid your tax on tax free investments!
But I agree that this is a team effort and all should do their bit in relation to their capacity to help.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 17, 2020, 12:58:31 PM
Would fans be prepared to pay the equivalent of the remainder of the home attendances for example. £15 X the number of home games paid at the time that the match would have been paid. I think I could live with that as I would have paid that money anyway. Perhaps the players could take a little less? It could all contribute.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 17, 2020, 01:29:58 PM
Is there any insurance? The government are currently being rightly critised for not forcing entertainment industries like cinemas to close but rather recommending it and making them close voluntarily. Voluntary closure makes an insurance claim impossible. Are Lynn covered by the same restrictions on a possible insurance claim? Has Johnson pretty much guaranteed that some entertainment industries will fail?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Squire of Langham on March 17, 2020, 01:55:13 PM
Season ticket holders have already done that Stan, will they be refunded?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 17, 2020, 01:59:19 PM
"Euro 2020 postponed for a year by Uefa because of coronavirus crisis".
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 17, 2020, 02:28:52 PM
Season ticket holders have already done that Stan, will they be refunded?

I would hope season tickets holders wonít look for any monies to be returned.  The same as sponsors, based advertisers etc.  Itís not the Clubs fault that the season has ended.

The ones that really should hang their head in shame are those who cheated the club by obtaining entry at Under 16 admission rates.  Wasnít there also one Supporter of the club who obtained free admission as a helper to a blue badge holder, even when the blue badge holder didnít attend.   Lowest of the low

Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Non League on March 17, 2020, 02:35:28 PM
Hopefully King's Lynn avoid it, but there'll be a number of non-league clubs that will fold from this. Basically going to lose 2 months income whilst still paying overheads, and if they're already in debt and paying off debts, this could be what tips them over the edge unless everything is frozen by the government for say 6 months.

Season doesn't start till say late 2020, those overheads will still be costly at this level if a club has a number of players on contracts to end of 2021 at least. Unprecedented times this, and could end up having wide scale long term impacts on football at this level.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 17, 2020, 03:38:53 PM
Unprecedented times this, and could end up having wide scale long term impacts on football at this level.

Indeed they are. I wonder if this will be a wake up call for non league clubs, so that irrespective of what happens now, they don't spend what they don't have in the future?   :dontknow:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: dillydilly on March 17, 2020, 03:50:49 PM
We ALL want the club to survive, and eventually thrive.  I certainly hope the Chairman and sponsors are able to stay on board without too much financial injury.  However, the phrase ď in the scheme of thingsĒ has never been more prevalent.  Virtually all of us have far more to consider, worry about, and tackle than the future of ANY sporting venture for the foreseeable future.  We shall turn our attentions to sport when the new world, in sport and out, is finally established.  I have a feeling that world will be vastly different to that of our current concerns like football and Brexit....
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 17, 2020, 04:01:05 PM
Unprecedented times this, and could end up having wide scale long term impacts on football at this level.

Indeed they are. I wonder if this will be a wake up call for non league clubs, so that irrespective of what happens now, they don't spend what they don't have in the future?   :dontknow:
So, if Lynn go down it will be no more than they deserve?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 17, 2020, 04:06:05 PM
We ALL want the club to survive, and eventually thrive.  I certainly hope the Chairman and sponsors are able to stay on board without too much financial injury.  However, the phrase ď in the scheme of thingsĒ has never been more prevalent.  Virtually all of us have far more to consider, worry about, and tackle than the future of ANY sporting venture for the foreseeable future.  We shall turn our attentions to sport when the new world, in sport and out, is finally established.  I have a feeling that world will be vastly different to that of our current concerns like football and Brexit....

As hard as it is to swallow that particular pill, I believe you may be correct there.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 17, 2020, 04:13:39 PM
Season ticket holders have already done that Stan, will they be refunded?

I would hope season tickets holders wonít look for any monies to be returned.  The same as sponsors, based advertisers etc.  Itís not the Clubs fault that the season has ended.

The ones that really should hang their head in shame are those who cheated the club by obtaining entry at Under 16 admission rates.  Wasnít there also one Supporter of the club who obtained free admission as a helper to a blue badge holder, even when the blue badge holder didnít attend.   Lowest of the low


Whilst the behaviour of those individuals is reprehensible, financially it won't be as significant as Johnson denying the entertainment industry the chance to claim through insurance. Blaming the people who cheated their tickets is a bit like blaming benefit cheats for problems in the economy when benefit fraud is a drop in the ocean compared to the money Johnson's mates swindle away from the taxpayer. It would be a terrible irony if some Lynn fans voted for Johnson only to see his insurance decision bring the club we all love, crashing to the ground.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 17, 2020, 04:38:00 PM
The government advised leisure businesses to close voluntarily prompting a public backlash that firms wonít be able to claim for business interruption as it isnít a closure order. The vast majority of companies wonít have bought cover that protects them in the event of business interruption caused by the coronavirus, according to experts. The Association of British Insurers (ABI) confirmed to Insurance Age: ďIrrespective of whether or not the Government order closure of a business, the vast majority of firms wonít have purchased cover that will enable them to claim on their insurance to compensate for their business being closed by the Coronavirus.Ē
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 17, 2020, 04:42:53 PM
The government advised leisure businesses to close voluntarily prompting a public backlash that firms wonít be able to claim for business interruption as it isnít a closure order. The vast majority of companies wonít have bought cover that protects them in the event of business interruption caused by the coronavirus, according to experts. The Association of British Insurers (ABI) confirmed to Insurance Age: ďIrrespective of whether or not the Government order closure of a business, the vast majority of firms wonít have purchased cover that will enable them to claim on their insurance to compensate for their business being closed by the Coronavirus.Ē

If Bobbins had still been involved, would we have had such cover in place?   :laughcry:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 17, 2020, 04:45:16 PM
The government advised leisure businesses to close voluntarily prompting a public backlash that firms wonít be able to claim for business interruption as it isnít a closure order. The vast majority of companies wonít have bought cover that protects them in the event of business interruption caused by the coronavirus, according to experts. The Association of British Insurers (ABI) confirmed to Insurance Age: ďIrrespective of whether or not the Government order closure of a business, the vast majority of firms wonít have purchased cover that will enable them to claim on their insurance to compensate for their business being closed by the Coronavirus.Ē
Well, insurance companies would say that wouldn't they! If the government ordered closures the picture changes and that's why they won't!
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 17, 2020, 04:49:31 PM
If Companies ainít covered, then they ainít covered. 

Letís see what Boris is going to throw at the problem.   Whatever amount it is, it wonít be enough and of course will have to be paid back by the tax payer over the next number of years.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 17, 2020, 04:57:28 PM
If Companies ainít covered, then they ainít covered. 

Letís see what Boris is going to throw at the problem.   Whatever amount it is, it wonít be enough and of course will have to be paid back by the tax payer over the next number of years.
Many would be covered but only if the government ordered closures regardless of the cause.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 17, 2020, 05:09:01 PM
From the Club.

 17, 2020
As you will be aware the National League suspended it's three leagues until at least April 3rd 2020 due to the outbreak of the COVID-19 virus,  on Monday evening.
 
With four home league games remaining to be played , and with no guarantee that these games will be completed in the near future, the club is facing a lack of income from gate money, match day hospitality and catering , programme and merchandise sales along with numerous events in the Blue & Gold Clubroom which are being cancelled in wake of the latest advice from the government. With all of this combined we estimate a total shortfall of around £100,000 which is required to pay wages and various other bills associated with running a business. Club chairman Stephen Cleeve has agreed to cover some of the shortfall himself but cannot commit to being able to cover the rest at this time.
 
It is with this is mind that we are asking that if people who have purchased tickets for the Brackley game, or coach travel to Kettering, are able to give this money  to the club as a donation we would be most appreciative. Refunds are available by contacting  Zoe Sandle via email (zoe.sandle@kltown.co.uk) by Friday March 20th  at 3pm.
 
We are also selling off the Southport match programmes for £3 inc P+P . A link will shortly be live on this site ( follow the match ticket link ) to purchase and you will need to send a Stamp addressed envelope to Mark Hearle, King's Lynn Town FC , The Walks Stadium, Tennyson Road, King's Lynn PE 30 5PB.
 
For all other queries and enquiries at this time contact Mark Hearle via e - mail at mark@kltown.co.uk
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 17, 2020, 05:24:52 PM
From the Club.

 17, 2020
As you will be aware the National League suspended it's three leagues until at least April 3rd 2020 due to the outbreak of the COVID-19 virus,  on Monday evening.
 
With four home league games remaining to be played , and with no guarantee that these games will be completed in the near future, the club is facing a lack of income from gate money, match day hospitality and catering , programme and merchandise sales along with numerous events in the Blue & Gold Clubroom which are being cancelled in wake of the latest advice from the government. With all of this combined we estimate a total shortfall of around £100,000 which is required to pay wages and various other bills associated with running a business. Club chairman Stephen Cleeve has agreed to cover some of the shortfall himself but cannot commit to being able to cover the rest at this time.
 
It is with this is mind that we are asking that if people who have purchased tickets for the Brackley game, or coach travel to Kettering, are able to give this money  to the club as a donation we would be most appreciative. Refunds are available by contacting  Zoe Sandle via email (zoe.sandle@kltown.co.uk) by Friday March 20th  at 3pm.
 
We are also selling off the Southport match programmes for £3 inc P+P . A link will shortly be live on this site ( follow the match ticket link ) to purchase and you will need to send a Stamp addressed envelope to Mark Hearle, King's Lynn Town FC , The Walks Stadium, Tennyson Road, King's Lynn PE 30 5PB.
 
For all other queries and enquiries at this time contact Mark Hearle via e - mail at mark@kltown.co.uk
Just listened to the Chancellor and I have to say it sounded bloody impressive in terms of support. Would have to look at the details but it was so bold and supportive it could turn me Conservative. What's the impact for the club I wonder?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 17, 2020, 05:26:11 PM
With you there Stan.  Well done Sunak and Johnson.  Promise of more to follow
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: m a hill on March 17, 2020, 05:43:19 PM
Stan what kind of support  is that can you explain why you would you say It
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 17, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Stan what kind of support  is that can you explain why you would you say It
Not with you?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 17, 2020, 05:48:20 PM
Stan what kind of support  is that can you explain why you would you say It

Its 15% of our GDP (and that's just to start with).

That's a hell of a lot of support and commitment.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 17, 2020, 05:54:36 PM
Stan what kind of support  is that can you explain why you would you say It

Its 15% of our GDP (and that's just to start with).

That's a hell of a lot of support and commitment.
Yeah, mainly through loans; some grants; permanent deferral of business rates; companies able to claim through insurance and something about Tower Hamlets!
B & G, I think that last one was from you :laughcry: :laughcry: :laughcry:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 17, 2020, 06:01:52 PM
25k Grant ( not loan) makes a decent dent that Stephen Cleeve needs to get him to the end of the summer.  Hopefully the players and other staff will help Stephen make a further dent in that 100k figure.  Supporters can play their part.

Any ideas on how the Club could raise further funds online and also connect  and interact with the fans?

Online Quiz ?  Online fans forum ?  Both allowing the fans to pay/donate.Maybe Mark can organise it Iím sure he canít have a lot on his plate at the mo.



Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 17, 2020, 06:12:38 PM
25k Grant ( not loan) makes a decent dent that Stephen Cleeve needs to get him to the end of the summer.  Hopefully the players and other staff will help Stephen make a further dent in that 100k figure.  Supporters can play their part.

Any ideas on how the Club could raise further funds online and also connect  and interact with the fans?

Online Quiz ?  Online fans forum ?  Both allowing the fans to pay/donate.Maybe Mark can organise it Iím sure he canít have a lot on his plate at the mo.
I still think fans could buy tickets for the remaining games, although I realise that some will have financial problems if their own.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: westlynnmike on March 17, 2020, 07:07:16 PM
As a Season Ticket holder I shall NOT be making a claim to get my money back. I took the risk of paying "up front" and any un-for-seen events that preclude me from attending (illness, the wife saying "your coming on holiday" etc.) must be accepted.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: m a hill on March 18, 2020, 02:11:04 AM
Well said Mike it never crossed my mind to ask for refund how would that help the club
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 18, 2020, 08:22:21 AM
 I'd be very surprised if there are any requests for refunds. :dontknow:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Bluboy on March 18, 2020, 10:47:42 AM
Iíve donated my Southport, Brackley ticket refund , also Kettering travel
Least we can do after the season weíve enjoyed and all the hard work by everyone behind the scenes  :scarf:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 18, 2020, 11:50:23 AM
Iíve donated my Southport, Brackley ticket refund , also Kettering travel
Least we can do after the season weíve enjoyed and all the hard work by everyone behind the scenes  :scarf:


:clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 18, 2020, 11:51:14 AM
25k Grant ( not loan) makes a decent dent that Stephen Cleeve needs to get him to the end of the summer.  Hopefully the players and other staff will help Stephen make a further dent in that 100k figure.  Supporters can play their part.

Any ideas on how the Club could raise further funds online and also connect  and interact with the fans?

Online Quiz ?  Online fans forum ?  Both allowing the fans to pay/donate.Maybe Mark can organise it Iím sure he canít have a lot on his plate at the mo.
I still think fans could buy tickets for the remaining games, although I realise that some will have financial problems if their own.
Curious that no one's commented on this suggestion. It could make all the difference. Including money from season ticket holders assume attendances of 1,000 X 4 home games games = 4000 X £15 = £60,000.
Am I missing something here? This plan seems simple, obvious and effective!
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Bluboy on March 18, 2020, 01:37:01 PM
25k Grant ( not loan) makes a decent dent that Stephen Cleeve needs to get him to the end of the summer.  Hopefully the players and other staff will help Stephen make a further dent in that 100k figure.  Supporters can play their part.

Any ideas on how the Club could raise further funds online and also connect  and interact with the fans?

Online Quiz ?  Online fans forum ?  Both allowing the fans to pay/donate.Maybe Mark can organise it Iím sure he canít have a lot on his plate at the mo.
I still think fans could buy tickets for the remaining games, although I realise that some will have financial problems if their own.
Curious that no one's commented on this suggestion. It could make all the difference. Including money from season ticket holders assume attendances of 1,000 X 4 home games games = 4000 X £15 = £60,000.
Am I missing something here? This plan seems simple, obvious and effective!

But donít forget concessions and children /students wonít be paying £15 on a match day
Just ask 1000 people for £15 donations 
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: somerset linnet on March 18, 2020, 04:01:47 PM
I see there is now a donations page on the Kings Lynn Football Clubs website. Although I am unable to get to see the linnets nowadays, a donation is on it's way. Well done to all those who are not claiming a refund on their season tickets. These are indeed uncertain times, Lets hope the the richer clubs will help the lower leagues out. We all love our clubs and the game of football but never forget that family and friends are paramount. So stay safe and let's hope it's not too long before we once again enjoy the game. :scarf: :scarf:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mark A Hearle on March 18, 2020, 05:09:01 PM
On behalf of the football club may I thank each and everyone of you for your kind offers, words , donations and support shown towards the football club at this very , very difficult time. As has been mentioned we have today set up a link on the football club site where you can donate if you wish by  clicking  the match ticket link , then ' Linnets donations ' and the options will then pop up. Thanks again. I will be posting a total to date figure here around 7 pm each evening starting on Thursday.

I will be popping in here from time to time to keep you updated. At the moment the season is only suspended until April 3 rd. We expect to have further information ourselves as to the next steps to be taken around that date. I will also attempt to answer any questions you may have here or you can e - mail me at mark@kltown.co.uk or call me on 01553 760060 .

Myself and the chairman plan to do a podcast at some stage shortly which will be available to view in the not to distant future.

I continue to be busy on various club business in these very difficult times we are all now facing.

Stay safe, keep well and look after each other.

Regards,

Mark.


   
 

Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Squire of Langham on March 18, 2020, 05:14:21 PM
Barnet have made 60 non playing staff redundant as a result of the Coronavirus situation. 
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: jesuslinnet on March 18, 2020, 07:27:20 PM
From FCUM.

http://www.fc-utd.co.uk/story.php?story_id=8671
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: m a hill on March 18, 2020, 07:43:34 PM
Mark i tried to donate £60 but it would only let me donate £20 it to pass the the £20 mark this needs looking at
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mark A Hearle on March 18, 2020, 07:52:55 PM
Malcolm,  I'm sure you do £20 at a time if the desired amount is over £20. Thanks.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: somerset linnet on March 18, 2020, 08:43:58 PM
Good point Malcolm, Donated £20 assuming that was the maximum. Mark could there be a link included to say Other amount. Then the process only needs to be done once, if various amounts wish to be donated. :scarf: :scarf: :scarf:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: dillydilly on March 18, 2020, 08:48:11 PM
I intend to donate as well when Iíve seen the forthcoming video.  But, I keep seeing suggestions of a  ďQuiz NightĒ......  Surely youíd need about a hundred of them to make any impression on the sums needed either to survive or progress ?!.....
Anyway, the big thing is first to survive as individuals, then revert to helping the club to achieve National or League status.  On the survival front, donít follow Stanley Johnsonís ignorance by going to the pub, and so far Iíve heard Sunakís plans for businesses, but havenít heard any plans to help out the people who rent, or pull the pints, or turn up when offered the chance on Zero-hour contracts....
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 18, 2020, 09:24:06 PM
He's covered the subject of the rent.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 18, 2020, 09:30:58 PM
Mark

Thanks for the update.

Will 100% of the donated money go to the Club, or will the company that run the ticketing be taking a fee?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: KES80 on March 18, 2020, 09:40:13 PM
He's covered the subject of the rent.
But not adequately...... surprise surprise, self employed and renters at the end of the queue
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Les Smith on March 18, 2020, 10:43:19 PM

On behalf of the football club may I thank each and everyone of you for your kind offers, words , donations and support shown towards the football club at this very , very difficult time. As has been mentioned we have today set up a link on the football club site where you can donate if you wish by  clicking  the match ticket link , then ' Linnets donations ' and the options will then pop up. Thanks again. I will be posting a total to date figure here around 7 pm each evening starting on Thursday.

I will be popping in here from time to time to keep you updated. At the moment the season is only suspended until April 3 rd. We expect to have further information ourselves as to the next steps to be taken around that date. I will also attempt to answer any questions you may have here or you can e - mail me at mark@kltown.co.uk or call me on 01553 760060 .

Myself and the chairman plan to do a podcast at some stage shortly which will be available to view in the not to distant future.

I continue to be busy on various club business in these very difficult times we are all now facing.

Stay safe, keep well and look after each other.

Regards,

Mark.


 


I now reside in Portugal so being unable to attend any of the matches I rely on these  posts and the Saturday/Tuesday match reports to keep me in touch. I moved to King's Lynn in 1975 and would be devastated to experience the demise of the club. Hence tonight I have made a £100 donation to the club. However, I would like to make the point that this process is not that easy for the non-savvy person using the website. In view of this, would it not be possible to add an easier link to take the potential donator directly to the page instead of having to trawl through the website in order to find it and in frustration deciding not to donate. Long live The Linnets :scarf: :scarf: :scarf: .
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 19, 2020, 08:57:07 AM
On behalf of the football club may I thank each and everyone of you for your kind offers, words , donations and support shown towards the football club at this very , very difficult time. As has been mentioned we have today set up a link on the football club site where you can donate if you wish by  clicking  the match ticket link , then ' Linnets donations ' and the options will then pop up. Thanks again. I will be posting a total to date figure here around 7 pm each evening starting on Thursday.

I will be popping in here from time to time to keep you updated. At the moment the season is only suspended until April 3 rd. We expect to have further information ourselves as to the next steps to be taken around that date. I will also attempt to answer any questions you may have here or you can e - mail me at mark@kltown.co.uk or call me on 01553 760060 .

Myself and the chairman plan to do a podcast at some stage shortly which will be available to view in the not to distant future.

I continue to be busy on various club business in these very difficult times we are all now facing.

Stay safe, keep well and look after each other.

Regards,

Mark.


 
Thanks for this Mark.
I don't know what other posters think but I feel that asking for donations in a vague, general way won't achieve much. It would be much better, if the club sets a target. Tell us how much you need. It started as £100,000 but this will now surely change due to government interventions. Work out how much you need from donations, set fans a target and give us regular updates on how the donations are going.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 19, 2020, 10:30:24 AM
See the National League asking the FA for financial support.

https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/sport/football/national-league-set-make-ps17-million-plea-football-association-help-support-non-league-clubs-through-coronavirus-pandemic-2501443?amp
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mark A Hearle on March 19, 2020, 11:49:15 AM
After reading a few comments here last evening we have now added options of £50,  £100 and £250  to the ' Linnet's donations ' link over on the club's site.

A small fee for the card to be processed is the only deduction to be taken from any donation - the service provider does not charge the club.

In this particular instance it's not about setting a target total  for people to meet. Whatever anyone is able to give at this time will help. By setting targets you then apply added pressure and I'm sure that's the last thing anyone now needs. 
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 19, 2020, 11:50:58 AM
Thanks Mark.

A small fee for the card to be processed is the only deduction to be taken from any donation - the service provider does not charge the club.

I take it you mean the card providers fee?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mark A Hearle on March 19, 2020, 12:17:27 PM
Thanks Mark.

A small fee for the card to be processed is the only deduction to be taken from any donation - the service provider does not charge the club.

I take it you mean the card providers fee?
Yes
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 19, 2020, 12:41:10 PM
Thanks Mark.

A small fee for the card to be processed is the only deduction to be taken from any donation - the service provider does not charge the club.

I take it you mean the card providers fee?
Yes

 :clap:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 19, 2020, 01:14:34 PM
National League asking for 17m would average out at 250k per club.  If we are looking at a shortfall of 100k then there must be some clubs in the National League really looking down the barrel at trouble.

Mark would it be an idea to release season tickets for 20/21 ?  Ok, no one knows what League or how many games but if they were set at a 5-10% uplift on last season then there maybe be something in for the supporters and of course Stephen.   Just throwing it out there.

I noticed in the National League/FA article the Airline industry is quoted.  Certain airlines have told employees to take unpaid leave.  Might this be something Stephen could maybe implement ?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: TonyM on March 19, 2020, 02:05:44 PM
National League asking for 17m would average out at 250k per club.  If we are looking at a shortfall of 100k then there must be some clubs in the National League really looking down the barrel at trouble.

I think the £100K is a bit of a red herring, or at least skewing the of the figures a bit, as SC was keen to point out earlier in the season that gate/match receipts are not as simple as attendance x £15.  If we assume an average paying gate of 1200, so not counting season ticket holders and allowing for some kids and concessions, for the final 4 league games @ £12.50 (£15 less the VAT) this only comes to £60K.  I can't believe we generate £40K profit on food/drink, match sponsors and the odd buffet. 

Given that we are in the higher bracket attendance wise, you could argue that the National League's £17m is a high figure as on the above figures if you gave each National North & South side £60K you would still 'only' burn just over £2.5m.  That said most North and South sides will lose their players wage bill at the end of April which probably can't be said for the National sides so could easily see why they would require far more support unless more clubs take the Barnet route. 

Mark would it be an idea to release season tickets for 20/21 ?  Ok, no one knows what League or how many games but if they were set at a 5-10% uplift on last season then there maybe be something in for the supporters and of course Stephen.   Just throwing it out there.

I noticed in the National League/FA article the Airline industry is quoted.  Certain airlines have told employees to take unpaid leave.  Might this be something Stephen could maybe implement ?

Really don't see much benefit to the club of pulling income from next year (that is still an unknown) into the current situation.  Options exist to defer expenditure with HMRC etc so that would be a better route imo.

On a general point, hopefully this will make a number of clubs, ourselves included, start to think about operating in a more sustainable way rather than running up large deficits in 'normal times'
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: westlynnmike on March 19, 2020, 07:11:26 PM
Players are self employed as semi-professionals. Have any volunteered not to be paid until they have played the game/s?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 19, 2020, 07:19:16 PM
Players are self employed as semi-professionals. Have any volunteered not to be paid until they have played the game/s?

Good question Mike.

However I think we would have already heard if the players had volunteered that.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mark A Hearle on March 19, 2020, 07:19:58 PM
The ' Linnets Donations ' scheme has so far raised £500. Thank you.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 19, 2020, 07:45:06 PM
The ' Linnets Donations ' scheme has so far raised £500. Thank you.

  :scarf: :scarf: :scarf:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Grissles Oleary on March 19, 2020, 08:52:26 PM
I intend to donate as well when Iíve seen the forthcoming video.  But, I keep seeing suggestions of a  ďQuiz NightĒ......  Surely youíd need about a hundred of them to make any impression on the sums needed either to survive or progress ?!.....
Anyway, the big thing is first to survive as individuals, then revert to helping the club to achieve National or League status.  On the survival front, donít follow Stanley Johnsonís ignorance by going to the pub, and so far Iíve heard Sunakís plans for businesses, but havenít heard any plans to help out the people who rent, or pull the pints, or turn up when offered the chance on Zero-hour contracts....


Last quiz night I believe raised in the region of 500 pounds,not to be sniffed at!
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: dillydilly on March 19, 2020, 10:46:23 PM
I agree Grissles - £500 was indeed a good effort and result....
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: m a hill on March 20, 2020, 01:39:34 AM
Has suggested I have donated the £60 pounds for the four remaining games even though Iam a Season Ticket holder why have I done this you may ask ,the answer is simple I have enjoyed watching lynn for the last nine seasons and I would like to make it ten
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 20, 2020, 03:40:38 AM
Has suggested I have donated the £60 pounds for the four remaining games even though Iam a Season Ticket holder why have I done this you may ask ,the answer is simple I have enjoyed watching lynn for the last nine seasons and I would like to make it ten
Yeah, that's what I plan to do. It's money that I would have spent anyway. I usually spend £20 per match so will donate £80 in 4 lots of £20
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 20, 2020, 03:46:28 AM
The ' Linnets Donations ' scheme has so far raised £500. Thank you.
I still think you'd achieve more with a target which reflects what remains to be raised after government intervention: targets focus the mind and will motivate fans more than what you are doing now.
I assume that the £500 excludes the contribution from season ticket holders?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 20, 2020, 04:14:31 AM
Players are self employed as semi-professionals. Have any volunteered not to be paid until they have played the game/s?

Good question Mike.

However I think we would have already heard if the players had volunteered that.
Semi-professional yes but we can't just assume that players' earnings from football are just bunce on the top of regular salaries from elsewhere. I bet a lot of these guys depend on their income from football. They will have families and mortgages just like the rest of us.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 20, 2020, 01:32:13 PM
Players are self employed as semi-professionals. Have any volunteered not to be paid until they have played the game/s?

Some Companies now asking their employees to take unpaid leave (some as much as 8 weeks) and others having a 25% drop in wages (and some of these are minimum wage employees).   :dontknow:


"AIRLINE Virgin Atlantic is asking 8,500 staff to take eight weeks of unpaid leave to reduce costs while it requests a taxpayer-funded bailout due to the coronavirus pandemic".

"Pret a Manger is to cut staff working hours and pay by a quarter across its 550 branches as customers follow government advice to stay at home to dampen the spread of coronavirus".
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 20, 2020, 02:52:31 PM
Any saving has to be important to get the Chairman to his 100k goal.  Maybe Stephen could make an offer to each player to pay up their contact for the last month of the season.  50% of something has to be better than a 100% of nothing.

Has the Chairman said how much he is prepared to support the club by ?  Then again if he is not prepared to carry on propping up the club next season where does it go from there ? 
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 20, 2020, 06:16:15 PM
Hearts in the Scottish League have TOLD All staff that as from April 1 they must take a 50% wage cut.
Those that are unable or unwilling will be offered the chance to leave the Club
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mark A Hearle on March 20, 2020, 07:22:10 PM
The ' Linnets Donations ' scheme has so far raised £910. Thank you. The next update will be on Monday
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Dilligaf on March 21, 2020, 01:27:18 PM
Players are self employed as semi-professionals. Have any volunteered not to be paid until they have played the game/s?


I take it as club officials have been on here and ignored your question Mike.....that'll be a no then....
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 22, 2020, 06:02:10 AM
https://twitter.com/StephenCleeve/status/1241465202069188609?s=20
This is a great idea. Buy your ticket for the remaining home games as normal. If the games are played later in the year (looking possible) then you've bought a ticket; if the game doesn't go ahead then it's a donation.
Surely fans will get behind this!
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: westlynnmike on March 22, 2020, 08:08:39 AM
Players are self employed as semi-professionals. Have any volunteered not to be paid until they have played the game/s?


I take it as club officials have been on here and ignored your question Mike.....that'll be a no then....

Some are on a Contract. Some are paid by the Game. All are on Expenses for travel and training. Some are Self-Employed.

We are all in different boats. Some of us are employed, un-employed, one job, two or more jobs, have a pension and some have two or more pensions. Others are on benefits and some have savings - others not.

However, with regard to COVID19 we are all in the same sea (just different boats).
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: westlynnmike on March 22, 2020, 08:12:14 AM
https://twitter.com/StephenCleeve/status/1241465202069188609?s=20
This is a great idea. Buy your ticket for the remaining home games as normal. If the games are played later in the year (looking possible) then you've bought a ticket; if the game doesn't go ahead then it's a donation.
Surely fans will get behind this!

As a Season Ticket Holder I have already done this. In a previous Post I have said that we are all in the same Sea - just different Boats.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 22, 2020, 10:48:02 AM
This is a time of hardship for many people, including fans of our Football Club.   I have seen that the Chairman is more than willing to support the club through this crisis.  I have seen the fans are also prepared to suppprt the club through this crisis.    If we are truly all in this together letís hear from the Staff what they doing to support the Club through this crisis.

Just reading through the NLP this morning.  Aldershot. The staff there have all agreed to a reduction in their salaryís to support their Club.   

There is no I in Team so letís see all sides pulling together.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 22, 2020, 01:45:53 PM
This is a time of hardship for many people, including fans of our Football Club.   I have seen that the Chairman is more than willing to support the club through this crisis.  I have seen the fans are also prepared to suppprt the club through this crisis.    If we are truly all in this together letís hear from the Staff what they doing to support the Club through this crisis.

Just reading through the NLP this morning.  Aldershot. The staff there have all agreed to a reduction in their salaryís to support their Club.   

There is no I in Team so letís see all sides pulling together.
I agree that we should all pull together but I haven't heard much from the Blue & Gold Supporters' Trust. How are the Trust currently helping the club stay afloat?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 22, 2020, 02:10:51 PM
I also think this stuff about the players not offering to cut their wages is a deliberate attempt to deter fans from making donations because if fans don't think the players are doing their bit then they are less likely to make donations themselves. 
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Bluboy on March 22, 2020, 06:03:13 PM
I also think this stuff about the players not offering to cut their wages is a deliberate attempt to deter fans from making donations because if fans don't think the players are doing their bit then they are less likely to make donations themselves.
Why would anyone would deter the hand that feeds you ...no club no play no pay   :dontknow:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Grissles Oleary on March 22, 2020, 07:05:52 PM
This is a time of hardship for many people, including fans of our Football Club.   I have seen that the Chairman is more than willing to support the club through this crisis.  I have seen the fans are also prepared to suppprt the club through this crisis.    If we are truly all in this together letís hear from the Staff what they doing to support the Club through this crisis.

Just reading through the NLP this morning.  Aldershot. The staff there have all agreed to a reduction in their salaryís to support their Club.   

There is no I in Team so letís see all sides pulling together.
I agree that we should all pull together but I haven't heard much from the Blue & Gold Supporters' Trust. How are the Trust currently helping the club stay afloat?


Stan have you emailed the Trust to enquire if they would be doing anything? Did you get a reply? Or are you putting it on here just to knock the trust again? :banghead;
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 22, 2020, 07:45:45 PM
This is a time of hardship for many people, including fans of our Football Club.   I have seen that the Chairman is more than willing to support the club through this crisis.  I have seen the fans are also prepared to suppprt the club through this crisis.    If we are truly all in this together letís hear from the Staff what they doing to support the Club through this crisis.

Just reading through the NLP this morning.  Aldershot. The staff there have all agreed to a reduction in their salaryís to support their Club.   

There is no I in Team so letís see all sides pulling together.
I agree that we should all pull together but I haven't heard much from the Blue & Gold Supporters' Trust. How are the Trust currently helping the club stay afloat?


Stan have you emailed the Trust to enquire if they would be doing anything? Did you get a reply? Or are you putting it on here just to knock the trust again? :banghead;
If they are doing anything then no doubt they'll keep us informed. I've not heard anything Griss have you?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 22, 2020, 08:16:35 PM
I also think this stuff about the players not offering to cut their wages is a deliberate attempt to deter fans from making donations because if fans don't think the players are doing their bit then they are less likely to make donations themselves.
Why would anyone would deter the hand that feeds you ...no club no play no pay   :dontknow:
Who steps in to run the club if it fails in its current form?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: MARCUS ROSE on March 22, 2020, 08:31:06 PM
I also think this stuff about the players not offering to cut their wages is a deliberate attempt to deter fans from making donations because if fans don't think the players are doing their bit then they are less likely to make donations themselves.

Looks like the anti Trust drivel that was here in Stanley's post earlier has disappeared. Shame that. It showed what a clueless individual he appears to be.
Unless of course he could show his working out. He could still get half a mark, even though the answer was wrong.  :laughcry:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: MARCUS ROSE on March 22, 2020, 08:33:46 PM
I also think this stuff about the players not offering to cut their wages is a deliberate attempt to deter fans from making donations because if fans don't think the players are doing their bit then they are less likely to make donations themselves.
Why would anyone would deter the hand that feeds you ...no club no play no pay   :dontknow:
Who steps in to run the club if it fails in its current form?

Wouldn't be the Trust.  They have no where enough reserves to take on the Club debts. Its a no-brainer Stan.  :countingmoney:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 22, 2020, 08:41:12 PM
I also think this stuff about the players not offering to cut their wages is a deliberate attempt to deter fans from making donations because if fans don't think the players are doing their bit then they are less likely to make donations themselves.

Looks like the anti Trust drivel that was here in Stanley's post earlier has disappeared. Shame that. It showed what a clueless individual he appears to be.
Unless of course he could show his working out. He could still get half a mark, even though the answer was wrong.  :laughcry:

How is asking a question seen as anti anything Marcus ?  To resort to personal insults brings little or nothing to the party.

Iíve asked a question about the players coming to help the Club.  Does this make me anti players ?

I think once people see everyone pulling in the same direction then the support will gather momentum.   Kissing the badge costs nothing. 
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Grissles Oleary on March 22, 2020, 09:06:17 PM
This is a time of hardship for many people, including fans of our Football Club.   I have seen that the Chairman is more than willing to support the club through this crisis.  I have seen the fans are also prepared to suppprt the club through this crisis.    If we are truly all in this together letís hear from the Staff what they doing to support the Club through this crisis.

Just reading through the NLP this morning.  Aldershot. The staff there have all agreed to a reduction in their salaryís to support their Club.   

There is no I in Team so letís see all sides pulling together.
I agree that we should all pull together but I haven't heard much from the Blue & Gold Supporters' Trust. How are the Trust currently helping the club stay afloat?


Stan have you emailed the Trust to enquire if they would be doing anything? Did you get a reply? Or are you putting it on here just to knock the trust again? :banghead;
If they are doing anything then no doubt they'll keep us informed. I've not heard anything Griss have you?

Stan are you a member of the trust? If you are then as a member you will be able to enquire of the trust directors what is being done? Or are you just making useless unfounded accusations about the trust not caring, just to whip up anti trust feelings as usual! If there are any discussions between the club and the trust then they will be done behind closed doors as and when is practical,and if any monies pass from the trust to the club then the trust must be involved in the running of the club! If Mr Cleeve will allow the trust to have shares in the club then so be it,trust and club together. Take your obsession with slating the trust and actually put that energy into finding out the trust ethos,and read the constitution,they cannot just give away funds raised by members willy nilly, it is the law. Turn your hatred of the trust into fundraising and they wouldn't need the trust!
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: MARCUS ROSE on March 22, 2020, 09:14:36 PM
Point taken Mallard. Perhaps the missing text could be put back in place for future reference.  It said a lot more than my comments.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 23, 2020, 06:54:26 AM
I also think this stuff about the players not offering to cut their wages is a deliberate attempt to deter fans from making donations because if fans don't think the players are doing their bit then they are less likely to make donations themselves.

Looks like the anti Trust drivel that was here in Stanley's post earlier has disappeared. Shame that. It showed what a clueless individual he appears to be.
Unless of course he could show his working out. He could still get half a mark, even though the answer was wrong.  :laughcry:
I didn't delete the part of the text that you refer to. It must have been admin which raises the question as to why would they delete it?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 23, 2020, 07:00:53 AM
I also think this stuff about the players not offering to cut their wages is a deliberate attempt to deter fans from making donations because if fans don't think the players are doing their bit then they are less likely to make donations themselves.

Looks like the anti Trust drivel that was here in Stanley's post earlier has disappeared. Shame that. It showed what a clueless individual he appears to be.
Unless of course he could show his working out. He could still get half a mark, even though the answer was wrong.  :laughcry:
I didn't delete the part of the text that you refer to. It must have been admin which raises the question as to why would they delete it?

Perhaps Admin can explain!
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 23, 2020, 08:05:43 AM
With the Government announcement last week (see below). Is there any real need for supporters to offer support or indeed players to take a pay cut ?

The government will pay the wages of employees unable to work due to the coronavirus pandemic, in a radical move aimed at protecting people's jobs.

It will pay 80% of salary for staff who are kept on by their employer, covering wages of up to £2,500 a month.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: admin on March 23, 2020, 09:17:56 AM
I didn't delete the part of the text that you refer to. It must have been admin which raises the question as to why would they delete it?
The post was moderated because it seemed to be a deliberate attempt to provoke.
Obviously it was not moderated soon enough.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 23, 2020, 09:20:24 AM
I didn't delete the part of the text that you refer to. It must have been admin which raises the question as to why would they delete it?
The post was moderated because it seemed to be a deliberate attempt to provoke.
Obviously it was not moderated soon enough.
A deliberate attempt to provoke what: legitimate discussion about the role of a supporters trust from a supporter?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: admin on March 23, 2020, 09:26:27 AM
Saying that it was interests of the Trust that the club does not survive was without foundation.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 23, 2020, 09:37:27 AM
Saying that it was interests of the Trust that the club does not survive was without foundation.
Admin, answer me this: what is the purpose of the £50,000 or so that the trust holds?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: admin on March 23, 2020, 09:44:11 AM
To quote the home page:
"To raise funds to enable the Trust to be in a position to purchase a stakeholding in the club, thus ensuring democratic supporter representation in the running of the club and that funds raised are used appropriately to benefit the long term stability and future of KLTFC for its supporters and the community."
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 23, 2020, 11:52:38 AM
This is a time of hardship for many people, including fans of our Football Club.   I have seen that the Chairman is more than willing to support the club through this crisis.  I have seen the fans are also prepared to suppprt the club through this crisis.    If we are truly all in this together letís hear from the Staff what they doing to support the Club through this crisis.

Just reading through the NLP this morning.  Aldershot. The staff there have all agreed to a reduction in their salaryís to support their Club.   

There is no I in Team so letís see all sides pulling together.



Former Everton star and current Hearts captain Steven Naismith has pledged to accept a 50 per cent pay cut in order to save jobs and help his club survive during the coronavirus crisis.

Players have been asked to halve their wages by the struggling Edinburgh side following the suspension of the Ladbrokes Premiership.

Scotland international Naismith is willing to meet the demand and plans to remain at Tynecastle next season "regardless of which league the club is in".

Relegation-threatened Hearts, managed by Daniel Stendel, currently sit at the foot of the division - four points adrift of second-bottom Hamilton.

"The current circumstances put everyone in a very difficult position, but this isn't a problem of Hearts' making," Naismith said in a statement.

My family and I feel that, through a long career, football has been very good to us. Therefore, I personally feel that I can and should accept the 50 per cent reduction in wages.

"I hope this can contribute in some way to the long-term survival of the club at a challenging time and save jobs, especially those that are the lowest earners and hence those who will be struggling the most at this time".

Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 23, 2020, 11:57:47 AM
Stephen Cleeve in todayís Lynn News

We are trying to do a deal with the players, a kind of compromise agreement, but with the government's announcement it may not be needed and we await details.

"Most players are being very reasonable and supportive. Under my watch we have never been late once paying in four seasons so they understand the circumstances."
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 23, 2020, 12:19:30 PM
Stephen Cleeve in todayís Lynn News

We are trying to do a deal with the players, a kind of compromise agreement, but with the government's announcement it may not be needed and we await details.

"Most players are being very reasonable and supportive. Under my watch we have never been late once paying in four seasons so they understand the circumstances."

In that case, I guess the players must be classed as employed rather than self-employed.   :dontknow:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Loughborough Linnet on March 23, 2020, 12:45:05 PM
To quote the home page:
"To raise funds to enable the Trust to be in a position to purchase a stakeholding in the club, thus ensuring democratic supporter representation in the running of the club and that funds raised are used appropriately to benefit the long term stability and future of KLTFC for its supporters and the community."

Does make you wonder if under current circumstances both sides would be amenable to the trust purchasing a stake? Trust get a say, Cleeve gives up some control, but solves a cashflow issue.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 23, 2020, 01:10:34 PM
Would anyone want to Ďinvestí by buying shares in the Football with a big wedge of directors loans.  ?  Unless Mr Cleeve wrote them off ( or converted the loans into shares). 
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 23, 2020, 01:28:21 PM
Would anyone want to Ďinvestí by buying shares in the Football with a big wedge of directors loans.  ?  Unless Mr Cleeve wrote them off ( or converted the loans into shares).
For those fans without a financial background, could you explain that please?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: TonyM on March 23, 2020, 01:42:27 PM
Would anyone want to Ďinvestí by buying shares in the Football with a big wedge of directors loans.  ?  Unless Mr Cleeve wrote them off ( or converted the loans into shares).
For those fans without a financial background, could you explain that please?

Basically SC hasn't 'given' the club money, rather he as loaned the money to the club.  All well and good whilst he is the sole owner as we all know we are basically one man's play thing until such time as he gets bored / runs out of cash, no real difference between us and Chelsea in that respect.

What I think Mallard is saying is why would the Trust membership vote to effectively 'burn' a sizable amount of the funds they have raised over the years to buy into a club that could still cease to exist by the start of next season should SC decide to call in his loans?  Personally as a Trust member, I would vote against such a proposal.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 23, 2020, 01:46:30 PM
Would anyone want to Ďinvestí by buying shares in the Football with a big wedge of directors loans.  ?  Unless Mr Cleeve wrote them off ( or converted the loans into shares).
For those fans without a financial background, could you explain that please?

Basically SC hasn't 'given' the club money, rather he as loaned the money to the club.  All well and good whilst he is the sole owner as we all know we are basically one man's play thing until such time as he gets bored / runs out of cash, no real difference between us and Chelsea in that respect.

What I think Mallard is saying is why would the Trust membership vote to effectively 'burn' a sizable amount of the funds they have raised over the years to buy into a club that could still cease to exist by the start of next season should SC decide to call in his loans?  Personally as a Trust member, I would vote against such a proposal.

Very well put Tony.   :dontknow:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 23, 2020, 01:50:58 PM
Would anyone want to Ďinvestí by buying shares in the Football with a big wedge of directors loans.  ?  Unless Mr Cleeve wrote them off ( or converted the loans into shares).
For those fans without a financial background, could you explain that please?

Basically SC hasn't 'given' the club money, rather he as loaned the money to the club.  All well and good whilst he is the sole owner as we all know we are basically one man's play thing until such time as he gets bored / runs out of cash, no real difference between us and Chelsea in that respect.

What I think Mallard is saying is why would the Trust membership vote to effectively 'burn' a sizable amount of the funds they have raised over the years to buy into a club that could still cease to exist by the start of next season should SC decide to call in his loans?  Personally as a Trust member, I would vote against such a proposal.

Exactly Tony.    There speaks the voice of reason
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 23, 2020, 02:02:01 PM
Would anyone want to Ďinvestí by buying shares in the Football with a big wedge of directors loans.  ?  Unless Mr Cleeve wrote them off ( or converted the loans into shares).
For those fans without a financial background, could you explain that please?

Basically SC hasn't 'given' the club money, rather he as loaned the money to the club.  All well and good whilst he is the sole owner as we all know we are basically one man's play thing until such time as he gets bored / runs out of cash, no real difference between us and Chelsea in that respect.

What I think Mallard is saying is why would the Trust membership vote to effectively 'burn' a sizable amount of the funds they have raised over the years to buy into a club that could still cease to exist by the start of next season should SC decide to call in his loans?  Personally as a Trust member, I would vote against such a proposal.

Exactly Tony.    There speaks the voice of reason
But with a limited liability company a company can only pay out what it has in assets. The chairman can't just take back money loaned if there are no assets to pay them.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 23, 2020, 02:41:01 PM
Would anyone want to Ďinvestí by buying shares in the Football with a big wedge of directors loans.  ?  Unless Mr Cleeve wrote them off ( or converted the loans into shares).
For those fans without a financial background, could you explain that please?

Basically SC hasn't 'given' the club money, rather he as loaned the money to the club.  All well and good whilst he is the sole owner as we all know we are basically one man's play thing until such time as he gets bored / runs out of cash, no real difference between us and Chelsea in that respect.

What I think Mallard is saying is why would the Trust membership vote to effectively 'burn' a sizable amount of the funds they have raised over the years to buy into a club that could still cease to exist by the start of next season should SC decide to call in his loans?  Personally as a Trust member, I would vote against such a proposal.

Exactly Tony.    There speaks the voice of reason
But with a limited liability company a company can only pay out what it has in assets. The chairman can't just take back money loaned if there are no assets to pay them.
So, technically they might be loans but in reality they are gifts. If the chairman walks away he won't be able to get his loans paid. He could put the company into liquidation, I suppose, as its main creditor but there aren't any realisable assets, as far as I know, so what would be the point?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 23, 2020, 02:43:45 PM
Also, if the club goes into liquidation it would be sent down the leagues. Surely the trust would want to prevent that from happening again?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: TonyM on March 23, 2020, 05:38:53 PM
Stan, slowly but surely you are getting there and now hopefully you see why I am so against the single benefactor model, although something tells me that you might have drawn a different conclusion.  If SC decided he no longer wanted the hassle of running the club he would be left with either getting what he could by selling it (if a buyer could be found) or by winding up the company to reduce any further losses.  I am sorry to say but with the sums involved on the directors loan accounts the Trust would have very little it could do to influence that decision one way or the other.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Nemesis on March 23, 2020, 06:12:22 PM
Also, if the club goes into liquidation it would be sent down the leagues. Surely the trust would want to prevent that from happening again?
I'm sure you know the answer to your own question but just to humour you.

Wouldn't that depend on the size of the debt and whether the club was sustainable at the level it was playing? No point in ploughing money into a club that would only find itself in the same position in a couple of season's time.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 23, 2020, 06:29:41 PM
Stan, slowly but surely you are getting there and now hopefully you see why I am so against the single benefactor model, although something tells me that you might have drawn a different conclusion.  If SC decided he no longer wanted the hassle of running the club he would be left with either getting what he could by selling it (if a buyer could be found) or by winding up the company to reduce any further losses.  I am sorry to say but with the sums involved on the directors loan accounts the Trust would have very little it could do to influence that decision one way or the other.
I'm glad that you think that I am getting there Tony: finance is not really my area. Here's another question for you?
If the trust were able to use their funds to support the club at the present time with what is basically a severe cash flow problem and the deal was some shares perhaps, it appears that, if your view is typical, that the trust would have nothing to do with it because of the current indebtedness to the chairman? So, while these loans exist, the trust will not really have anything to do with the club and because these loans will only ever go away if the club becomes either so profitable that it can afford to clear them or the chairman writes them off or the company goes into liquidation and the first two options are unlikely, the trust's likely course of action is to do nothing and wait for the club to go bust?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: MARCUS ROSE on March 23, 2020, 08:24:23 PM
Stan, slowly but surely you are getting there and now hopefully you see why I am so against the single benefactor model, although something tells me that you might have drawn a different conclusion.  If SC decided he no longer wanted the hassle of running the club he would be left with either getting what he could by selling it (if a buyer could be found) or by winding up the company to reduce any further losses.  I am sorry to say but with the sums involved on the directors loan accounts the Trust would have very little it could do to influence that decision one way or the other.
I'm glad that you think that I am getting there Tony: finance is not really my area. Here's another question for you?
If the trust were able to use their funds to support the club at the present time with what is basically a severe cash flow problem and the deal was some shares perhaps, it appears that, if your view is typical, that the trust would have nothing to do with it because of the current indebtedness to the chairman? So, while these loans exist, the trust will not really have anything to do with the club and because these loans will only ever go away if the club becomes either so profitable that it can afford to clear them or the chairman writes them off or the company goes into liquidation and the first two options are unlikely, the trust's likely course of action is to do nothing and wait for the club to go bust?

No use throwing good money after bad Stan.  If the Trust was to buy, say 25% of the club. Then it would be liable for 25% of the debts. Absolute madness and unsustainable. Use the Barrow Trust as an example.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: TonyM on March 23, 2020, 10:47:02 PM
Stan, slowly but surely you are getting there and now hopefully you see why I am so against the single benefactor model, although something tells me that you might have drawn a different conclusion.  If SC decided he no longer wanted the hassle of running the club he would be left with either getting what he could by selling it (if a buyer could be found) or by winding up the company to reduce any further losses.  I am sorry to say but with the sums involved on the directors loan accounts the Trust would have very little it could do to influence that decision one way or the other.
I'm glad that you think that I am getting there Tony: finance is not really my area. Here's another question for you?
If the trust were able to use their funds to support the club at the present time with what is basically a severe cash flow problem and the deal was some shares perhaps, it appears that, if your view is typical, that the trust would have nothing to do with it because of the current indebtedness to the chairman? So, while these loans exist, the trust will not really have anything to do with the club and because these loans will only ever go away if the club becomes either so profitable that it can afford to clear them or the chairman writes them off or the company goes into liquidation and the first two options are unlikely, the trust's likely course of action is to do nothing and wait for the club to go bust?

Stan, I don't speak for the Trust, I am just one member with one vote so this is just my opinion.  The problem with the current structure is that  the club is spending way beyond its means and this shortfall is being covered by SC through loans, if the club were to issue shares such that the Trust did end up with 25% then it wouldn't be unreasonable for SC to expect the Trust to cover their share of the any future shortfall without really having any mechanism to change how the club worked.  As for your three options, yes in effect the way SC has operated the club means any prudent Trust would probably not want to get involved, not sure I would class that as 'waiting for the club to go bust', more like waiting for the inevitable based on similar scenarios up and down the country and then being there to pick up the pieces.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 24, 2020, 08:55:01 AM
Whilst not being a Trust member I fully appreciate the need for them to be in place.   Of course I hope there is never a need for them to help mount a rescue plan.

On the other side Stephen Cleeve has done a great job to take us to the level we now find us.   Is it sustainable ?   I hope so, but not with one person ploughing in money.  That is limited to the wealth and continued interest of one person ( in this case).    Stephen is on record as saying he is not going to prop the club beyond this season.   To that end I can see the sense in appointing a full time Commercial Manager.   It is down to Mark Hearle to make good that shortfall next season.    No easy task of course and a lot of the clubs future resting on his shoulders.

When we come out of this current unbelievable situation then the World may well be a different place for everyone,  including Football. 
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: TonyM on March 24, 2020, 01:33:53 PM
Whilst not being a Trust member I fully appreciate the need for them to be in place.   Of course I hope there is never a need for them to help mount a rescue plan.
Quote

This is a fundamental problem for the B&G Trust, they have allowed themselves to be painted into a corner, first by Buster and now the present owner, marginalising them as a disgruntled safety net and nothing more.  Trusts at some other clubs have a much better working relationship with their club's owners and, in turn, have a much wider involvement with helping their club.  Hopefully, one day, this will also be true at Lynn, although I can't see it in the near future with how SC currently operates.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 24, 2020, 05:49:04 PM
Whilst not being a Trust member I fully appreciate the need for them to be in place.   Of course I hope there is never a need for them to help mount a rescue plan.
Quote

This is a fundamental problem for the B&G Trust, they have allowed themselves to be painted into a corner, first by Buster and now the present owner, marginalising them as a disgruntled safety net and nothing more.  Trusts at some other clubs have a much better working relationship with their club's owners and, in turn, have a much wider involvement with helping their club.  Hopefully, one day, this will also be true at Lynn, although I can't see it in the near future with how SC currently operates.
A disgruntled safety net is indeed how they come across, if I'm honest. I have seen a lot of implicit and explicit anti-club (in its current form) rhetoric on this forum over the last few years and would suggest that this hasn't helped the perception of the trust or their cause. I can recall being called Stephen Cleeve in the early days of his tenure simply because of playing devil's advocate and putting his case.
I like the idea of a trust in principle but would not wish to wed myself to a partisan: trust = good; sole-owner = bad or vice versa, as this tends to lead to reductive: if you're not with us you're against us type of thinking and arguments. For me the trust's ostensible intransigence at being ideologically against the sole-owner model is part of the problem. Personally, I don't care which model the club uses so long as it provides good quality and progressive football for the fans.
I support QPR. During the early '60s QPR's typical home attendance was about 4,000. Jim Gregory, a rich sole-owner came in and transformed the club to the extent that in 1976 they were vying for the old first division title and 35,000 watched them play Leeds at home.
Sole-owners aren't always the devils that some paint them. Perhaps both sides need to be a bit more open minded.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Grissles Oleary on March 24, 2020, 08:28:23 PM
How much of a circle can this carry on going round? Has anyone actually emailed the trust to see what their position is,or emailed the club? :dontknow:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: MARCUS ROSE on March 24, 2020, 10:01:19 PM
" if you're not with us you're against us type of thinking and arguments"

Stan, that has been the ideology of this clubs owners since its formation, Not the Trust. Both have been more than happy to be one man bands. Which you no doubt know.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: MARCUS ROSE on March 24, 2020, 10:02:39 PM
How much of a circle can this carry on going round? Has anyone actually emailed the trust to see what their position is,or emailed the club? :dontknow:

Old Loopy was a lot better than Stan. :laughcry: Grissles.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Grissles Oleary on March 24, 2020, 10:50:40 PM
How much of a circle can this carry on going round? Has anyone actually emailed the trust to see what their position is,or emailed the club? :dontknow:

Old Loopy was a lot better than Stan. :laughcry: Grissles.

At least loopy joined the Trust for a little while and actually made comments based on his experience? :laughcry: :laughcry: :laughcry:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Loopy,linnet on March 25, 2020, 02:56:33 AM
How much of a circle can this carry on going round? Has anyone actually emailed the trust to see what their position is,or emailed the club? :dontknow:

Old Loopy was a lot better than Stan. :laughcry: Grissles.
all this coming from fc United man hey Marcus ,and thereís me thinking you had deserted lynn for the mancs
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 25, 2020, 05:47:54 AM
How much of a circle can this carry on going round? Has anyone actually emailed the trust to see what their position is,or emailed the club? :dontknow:
There's no circle Griss. Tony made a point about the trust coming across as a disgruntled safety net and I've just expanded that idea from my own perspective. We've moved on from the original point about the trust not doing anything to broader issues. Sorry, if that sounds patronising but you did ask.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 25, 2020, 05:51:04 AM
" if you're not with us you're against us type of thinking and arguments"

Stan, that has been the ideology of this clubs owners since its formation, Not the Trust. Both have been more than happy to be one man bands. Which you no doubt know.
I agree this problem is on both sides and I did say that both parties need to be more open minded.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 25, 2020, 06:13:20 AM
Didnít the Trust buy and pay for for the insulation of the 2 new sets of turnstiles during this season ?  Hardly the act of an unsupportive body.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 25, 2020, 07:57:12 AM
Didnít the Trust buy and pay for for the insulation of the 2 new sets of turnstiles during this season ?  Hardly the act of an unsupportive body.
That's very true, although I thought it was the fans who raised the money, admittedly via trust initiative and organisation. Are you suggesting that the trust have at least tried to work with the club but the club haven't tried to work with the trust?
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 25, 2020, 01:06:34 PM
Apparently The Trust Chairman and the Club Chairman have communicated with each other since the weekend.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: TonyM on March 25, 2020, 01:32:33 PM
Didnít the Trust buy and pay for for the insulation of the 2 new sets of turnstiles during this season ?  Hardly the act of an unsupportive body.
That's very true, although I thought it was the fans who raised the money, admittedly via trust initiative and organisation. Are you suggesting that the trust have at least tried to work with the club but the club haven't tried to work with the trust?

All 'Trust funds' are monies raised by fans Stan.  The GDF was an excellent example of how the Trust could work with the club - fans who contributed knew their money would be safe due to the Trust's rules and regs and would be spent on the designated area and the club got a contribution towards necessary ground improvements.  The disappointing thing is that even up to its launch SC was trying his best to stop it being set up, although I do think he now sees that it was a good proposal.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: TonyM on March 25, 2020, 01:35:28 PM
Apparently The Trust Chairman and the Club Chairman have communicated with each other since the weekend.

Glad to hear they are in communication but, as ever, Trust board are bound by their constitution to put major expenditure to the members, something that both the current and previous owners have struggled with.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 25, 2020, 01:55:57 PM
Apparently The Trust Chairman and the Club Chairman have communicated with each other since the weekend.

Glad to hear they are in communication but, as ever, Trust board are bound by their constitution to put major expenditure to the members, something that both the current and previous owners have struggled with.

Correct on both points Tony.    :clap:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: MARCUS ROSE on March 25, 2020, 08:05:10 PM
How much of a circle can this carry on going round? Has anyone actually emailed the trust to see what their position is,or emailed the club? :dontknow:

Old Loopy was a lot better than Stan. :laughcry: Grissles.
all this coming from fc United man hey Marcus ,and thereís me thinking you had deserted lynn for the mancs

Still here Loopy keeping an eye on things.  With a good understanding on supporter owned clubs and sensible sustainable club management.  :cheers:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Mallard on March 26, 2020, 09:45:29 PM
https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town-manager-paul-lambert-defers-wages-1-6581320

Nice gesture from Paul Lambert at Ipswich to try to keep others in a job.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on March 26, 2020, 09:55:10 PM
 
https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town-manager-paul-lambert-defers-wages-1-6581320

Nice gesture from Paul Lambert at Ipswich to try to keep others in a job.

 :clap:  :clap:   :clap:
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: Stan on March 27, 2020, 11:09:16 AM
https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town-manager-paul-lambert-defers-wages-1-6581320

Nice gesture from Paul Lambert at Ipswich to try to keep others in a job.

 :clap:  :clap:   :clap:
It is a nice gesture but he can obviously afford to do it.
Title: Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
Post by: MARCUS ROSE on March 27, 2020, 10:02:18 PM
https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town-manager-paul-lambert-defers-wages-1-6581320

Nice gesture from Paul Lambert at Ipswich to try to keep others in a job.

 :clap:  :clap:   :clap:
It is a nice gesture but he can obviously afford to do it.

I would think most people only give what they can afford.  :banghead;