Linnets' Fans' Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: TonyM on April 10, 2020, 02:40:40 PM

Title: Chairman's podcast
Post by: TonyM on April 10, 2020, 02:40:40 PM
For those missing SC's programme notes, he has taken to the airwaves with a podcast.  As with his programme notes, could do with a bit of editing but he is one for saying things as he sees them, obviously this sometimes splits opinion but it is what it is. 

Link to listen here https://anchor.fm/stephen-cleeve 

Three topics in the first 'episode' - COVID-19 and finishing the season, furloughing players and free transfers.  No surprises on SC's thoughts on the first item, second was interesting and probably shows why the PFA and pro-footballers have not had the best PR over the past couple of weeks and not sure I would agree with SC's thoughts on free transfers but interesting all the same
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: macfleetwood1 on April 12, 2020, 11:52:37 AM
Having listened to the podcast, its clear that our owner fully understands the running of a non league club, it was interesting to hear his reasons for the signing of Brown from Buxton. It is more of an investment, which by the sound of it, is a very good deal. If some of you get the chance watch Sunderland till I Die, its on Netflix, and you can see the pitfalls of running a big club, and the problems with agents. The problems are the same which ever standard you are at, only on a bigger scale.   
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Mallard on April 12, 2020, 02:21:44 PM
Mac do you think Charlie Methven ( Sunderland till I die, series 2) and our Stephen are related ?  :laughcry:
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on April 12, 2020, 03:04:12 PM
Mac do you think Charlie Methven ( Sunderland till I die, series 2) and our Stephen are related ?  :laughcry:


Where's Charlie these days?   :dontknow:
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: macfleetwood1 on April 13, 2020, 10:33:14 AM
Well Mallard, at first I thought Charlie and SC were brothers!
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: TonyM on April 19, 2020, 11:09:23 AM
Caught up on episodes 2 & 3 of SC's podcast yesterday with guests from South Shields and Wealdstone respectively.  Interesting and perhaps an unintentional common thread was how both advocated, at least an element of, supporter ownership.  South Shields are in a different position to KLTFC in that its seems that they own their ground (thanks to Geoff Thompson, their chairman) and their supporters share issue has been for ground development, essentially Geoff explained that he is diluting his ownership by issuing new shares not selling some of his shares for personal gain (reimbursement of investment) so all funds raised will be spent within the club.  Unfortunately the connection to Paul Rumens, the Wealdstone chap, broke up when he was explaining how their supporters were involved.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on April 19, 2020, 11:39:01 AM
Caught up on episodes 2 & 3 of SC's podcast yesterday with guests from South Shields and Wealdstone respectively.  Interesting and perhaps an unintentional common thread was how both advocated, at least an element of, supporter ownership.  South Shields are in a different position to KLTFC in that its seems that they own their ground (thanks to Geoff Thompson, their chairman) and their supporters share issue has been for ground development, essentially Geoff explained that he is diluting his ownership by issuing new shares not selling some of his shares for personal gain (reimbursement of investment) so all funds raised will be spent within the club.  Unfortunately the connection to Paul Rumens, the Wealdstone chap, broke up when he was explaining how their supporters were involved.

...........SC also said he has asked that how each club votes should be made public, not sure what would be gained but he seems to think it is important.

Supporters involvement.

Open and transparent.

The start of a much welcomed change? Even if brought about by current circumstances, a change in the right direction?

 :scarf: :scarf: :scarf:


Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Nemesis on April 19, 2020, 11:55:09 AM
I believe in his past programme notes Stephen Cleeve has praised the work of Kidderminster Harriers Independent Supporters' Trust although he didn't seem to mention that they have two members on the KHFC board.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Mallard on April 19, 2020, 12:45:02 PM
Supporters involved is alive and kicking at Lynn.  Only have to look at The Clubs just giving page to see how many contributed out of an average gate of 1400.

Supporters involvement should be a two way street.   Itís a lesson that needs learning.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on April 19, 2020, 02:31:39 PM
Supporters involved is alive and kicking at Lynn.  Only have to look at The Clubs just giving page to see how many contributed out of an average gate of 1400.

Supporters involvement should be a two way street.   Itís a lesson that needs learning.

True, although supporters involvement should not mean "give me your money so I can spend it as I like".
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on April 19, 2020, 02:52:29 PM
I believe in his past programme notes Stephen Cleeve has praised the work of Kidderminster Harriers Independent Supporters' Trust.

Exactly what work is he referring to?   :dontknow:
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Nemesis on April 19, 2020, 03:14:08 PM
The KHIST were raising funds for the club. Basically it was just another dig at the Trust but there was no mention that KHIST were shareholders . This was before the Ground Development Fund was started.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on April 19, 2020, 04:01:37 PM
The KHIST were raising funds for the club.

Sorry Nemesis, I meant where does it say KHIST were raising funds?

i.e.  Their clubs website/ Facebook/Twitter.
         Or KHIST website/Facebook/Twitter.

I was just wondering exactly which efforts the Chairman was referring to and when.   :dontknow:
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Mallard on April 19, 2020, 04:04:48 PM
In fairness to SC he is very unlikely to quote parts that do not fit his argument.  I mean who would do that. 

Best the Chairman just forgets the Trust are there and stops going cap in hand to them looking for a hand out everytime he canít cover something himself.    He knows the answer.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Nemesis on April 19, 2020, 06:00:59 PM
To quote the KHIST website:
"KHIST 2020 LOTTERY Ė launched November 2010 Ė The lottery has now raised over £100,000 for the club, whilst delivering out large cash and other prizes each month to those who take part"

In fairness to SC he is very unlikely to quote parts that do not fit his argument.  I mean who would do that.
Someone who is more interested in scoring cheap political points in order to cause trouble rather than presenting a fair picture.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Mallard on April 19, 2020, 06:18:42 PM
Hopefully the majority of people can see through these  thinly veiled attempts to have digs at The Trust, just because the Chairman canít get his own way like perhaps he does with other bodies.

If Kiddie is the ideal Stephen is holding up as an example, then a seat on the board is worth circa 50k.   Thatís at an ex League Club who have a greater potential than us at Kings Lynn.  It seems the Chairman has no interest in others being involved at Boardroom level as he has some good people working for the club who perhaps would like the opportunity to become a board member.

Has anyone ever asked Stephen why he is loath to welcome anyone else onboard?   Be interesting to hear his reasoning.  Perhaps he would address this in one of his weekly blogs.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Nemesis on April 19, 2020, 07:03:06 PM
I remember when he advertised the manager's post after Culverhouse left he emphasised that fact that there was no Board to delay decision making.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: MARCUS ROSE on April 19, 2020, 07:37:21 PM
Supporters involved is alive and kicking at Lynn.  Only have to look at The Clubs just giving page to see how many contributed out of an average gate of 1400.

Supporters involvement should be a two way street.   Itís a lesson that needs learning.

Fair play to all who have donated. But 62 people is under 5%.  Not the call to arms the Chairman wanted.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Captain Sensible on April 19, 2020, 09:51:35 PM
The blogs are as predictable as ever. Repetitive and using half the facts so as to be able to state something that he believes will assist his arguement. I really think this kind of behaviour shows how he really views the intelligence of the Clubs supporters. The Chairman just does not seem to be able to help himself. I really don't think this will ever change as its the way he appears to go about everything.
If he really believes he has some good people working at the Club who would maybe like the opportunity to be board members, he has the answer to his cash flow problems in his own hands.
Let these same good people put their hands into their pockets and buy shares into the Club. If they support him all the way as they claim, then 4 x 25k really should not be a problem. The 100k he wanted is there at the stroke of a pen! He will have his own good people on the board who will all see things the same way as he does, therefore avoiding  any dissent.
Finance should not be a problem as he claims he can assist people that want to purchase Clubs. Making arrangements for his own good people to buy into his own Club should therefore be easy to accomplish.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Mallard on April 20, 2020, 08:28:30 AM
Stephen is on the record as having put in circa 500k.   Why would others ( good people they may well be) want to follow that example and put further cash in ( % to share holding).   It doesnít seem a great way to spend your hard earned.   

The only way forward, in the long term, is a self sufficient club.   Now that would have to be at a level that is affordable.   Can anyone honestly say the level we are playing at and the amount of money one individual is having to offer up to compete at this level is a MO for the future ?

Buster spent what was coming in to compete at step 3 ( one level lower than now).  That is maybe really where a club like ours is at.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: KES80 on April 20, 2020, 12:44:03 PM
Think you're forgetting Mall where the crowds were heading......over 4,000 for one game and would have averaged 1600 but for the pandemic, after a slow start.
So step 3/4 is where the club potential was at, before the arrival of Culverhouse and the energy and money of the Chairman.
On those crowd levels, the current level or one above is possible if the infra structure is ramped up........however that probably requires new people with expertise in business and marketing to be brought in and I am not sure the Chairman would be comfortable with that.

I am not sure how most of the 60 odd National League clubs are going to survive till next year, unless there are significantly bigger hand outs from the top down.......it maybe that a complete restructuring of non league will take place eventually.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: TonyM on April 20, 2020, 01:46:47 PM
Some interesting bits in the NLP this week with people finally waking up to the unsustainability of the model for most National League (inc N&S) clubs, and infact football in general, with Havent & Waterlooville's manager saying the days of £700-900/week for a player in non-league have gone.  The snippet in SC's podcast about 95% of players accepting they won't be paid until the 20-21 season starts (rather than 1st August) raised a concern with me and I got the following reply on Twitter in response to my dislike of 2 year contracts at step 2. 

"Accept the 2 year contracts situation certainly in this current situation not ideal - we only  have 4 players who are contracted from next season for 2 years the rest are just next season only so we can live with it (I hope)"

This looks like total madness (unless I am misreading it) but it appears we have 4 players who have got contracts that run into the 21-22 season?  I am sorry and I don't care who the four players are - NO player is worth a multi year contract at step 2 and the sooner a club higher up the food chain cancels all player contracts the better, because once one does it then many more will follow, particularly down the leagues.  Hopefully at that point the EFL AND the National League will both introduce proper salary caps and external audit requirements to stop the financial doping that lies behind the current model
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on April 20, 2020, 02:45:23 PM
Think you're forgetting Mall where the crowds were heading......over 4,000 for one game and would have averaged 1600 but for the pandemic, after a slow start.
So step 3/4 is where the club potential was at, before the arrival of Culverhouse and the energy and money of the Chairman.
On those crowd levels, the current level or one above is possible if the infra structure is ramped up........however that probably requires new people with expertise in business and marketing to be brought in and I am not sure the Chairman would be comfortable with that.

I am not sure how most of the 60 odd National League clubs are going to survive till next year, unless there are significantly bigger hand outs from the top down.......it maybe that a complete restructuring of non league will take place eventually.

50/50 on this one Kes.

The point is that money has been thrown at the Club. That's the reason for the on field success, and its not sustainable. Even if we were playing at a higher level, unless we were winning and challenging, I think the gates would fall as they have done previously. IMO winning games is what brings the people through the turn styles, more than the level they play at.

I agree that other activities need to be ramped up. You need class on the pitch to succeed, and you need class off the pitch, with the expertise in business and marketing, to succeed in that area. No Club has a God given right to expect people to fall over themselves to give it sponsorship or hire their facilities. There's a lot of competition for sponsorship etc out there these days, and most Companies will expect a return of some sort when investing in sponsorship. Gone are the days when these firms will just hand over a cheque because you are the Towns Football Club.

I expect it will be even more difficult and require even more expertise in this area when the current crisis is over. Many firms and individuals will have a lot more to worry about than giving money to a Football Club. Still, its a job that needs doing, but for any Club to succeed they need to make sure they put as much effort into this area, and have the right people, as they do the playing side.

So, if the business model at Lynn changed and the Club was sustainable without Benefactors funds, do I think the Club could maintain this level or even the one above? Personally, I doubt it, but would obviously love to be proven wrong on this one.

Of course the above could all be completely irrelevant anyway. The World as a whole will be changed when this is all over, and I'd be surprised if many are still of the opinion that this won't impact on football (and Football is a minor matter in the grand scheme of things).

As someone said on the forum last week.....................the reset button is about to be pressed.

 :scarf:

Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: KES80 on April 20, 2020, 05:30:58 PM
Think your argument about crowds being dependent on results, isn't so relevant at level 1 non league as it was or would be at lower levels B &G ( at least as it was under the old model before the virus).
It's never truer than now that the past isn't always a guide to the future. Lynn 's attendances in the past at step 3/4 and some matches at step 2, may have relied heavily on results. However , at step 1, the draw of the match and especially the away following of much of the opposition, would I think have guaranteed an average attendance of 1600-2000 in the season, even if the team were to struggle........so I can't really agree with your stance there.



But for sure,now, it's reset and rethink time .......the costs could well fall steeply and long contracts could be a real burden. I suspect sponsorship will also be far harder to find and of course admission prices will need to come down.........a completely new model............while this is also feeding through really significant monies need to be redistributed from top to bottom.....I can see next season being one in which no games are played at all in the UK and the English game gradually changes shape over this time, with fewer leagues, fewer teams and fewer matches per season.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: TonyM on April 20, 2020, 05:35:27 PM
...As someone said on the forum last week.....................the reset button is about to be pressed.

This is my worry about the contracts that SC has already handed out - the world may well be a different place but we could still be saddled with a pre-COVID wage structure, not only for 20-21 (whatever that may look like) but also for some player staff, into 21-22. 
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on April 20, 2020, 06:14:06 PM
Think your argument about crowds being dependent on results, isn't so relevant at level 1 non league as it was or would be at lower levels B &G ( at least as it was under the old model before the virus).
It's never truer than now that the past isn't always a guide to the future. Lynn 's attendances in the past at step 3/4 and some matches at step 2, may have relied heavily on results. However , at step 1, the draw of the match and especially the away following of much of the opposition, would I think have guaranteed an average attendance of 1600-2000 in the season, even if the team were to struggle........so I can't really agree with your stance there.

Yes, we'll have to agree to disagree.

 :scarf:
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Mallard on April 20, 2020, 06:45:23 PM
Tony,  what did you think of the Blyth Spartans ideas on re-structuring at EFL 2 and National Leagues in this weeks NLP?

Certainly made a lot of sense and worth further thought by the powers that be.,   Not sure they would be a great advantage to Clubs like Lynn who are stuck out on limb, but hasnít that always been the case.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on April 21, 2020, 11:44:12 AM
Source: BBC

Mark Palios: Tranmere chairman expects 'double figure' EFL insolvencies

Former Football Association CEO Mark Palios says a "double figure" number of English Football League clubs could go into insolvency because of coronavirus.

The EFL and Professional Footballers' Association proposed on Tuesday that clubs in Leagues One and Two defer up to 25% of players' wages for April.

Tranmere chairman Palios said clubs will still not be able to pay on time.

But he added: "The PFA and EFL are starting to collaborate which loosens the paralysis we've seen."


Speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today Programme, Palios continued: "It will probably assist with the April wages, but I still think that certainly the clubs will be unable to meet the wages in April and then more in May."

English football is on an indefinite hiatus, with no play in any of the top four divisions since Tuesday, 10 March - and there is no suggested date for when it could resume.

Last August, Bury became the first team to drop out of the EFL since Maidstone's liquidation in 1992 - and while Palios thinks most clubs will ultimately survive, he anticipates serious financial issues for many.

"I think a certain number of clubs, on the basis of they can't pay contractual wages, will move down the path to a formal insolvency," he added.

"I think it'll be into double figures."



No crowds at games until end of year?



Andy Pilley, chairman of fellow League One club Fleetwood Town, praised the EFL and PFA, describing Tuesday's conditional wage deferral as "appropriate" and "sensible".

"It's not going to solve the problem, but it's a step in the right direction," said Pilley, in a video blog.

However, he agreed with Palios regarding the number of clubs at severe financial risk as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.

Pilley also predicted that matches will be played behind closed doors when the sport is allowed to resume, and believes there may not be any crowds watching matches until the end of the year.

"It (playing behind closed doors) is the only way we will be able to conclude the season, which is absolutely essential," he said.

"I've heard it suggested that we shouldn't conclude the season - I'm sorry, but I disagree. If you enter a competition, you have an obligation to complete it; to the teams involved in promotion and relegation, supporters, broadcasters and sponsors.

"I am the eternal optimist, however, I must be a realist. My prediction is I think there could be no games in 2020 in front of crowds.

"I base that on a statement made by the chief executive of the Bundesliga. They're a good two or three weeks ahead of us, and he (Christian Seifert) said he expects there to be no live football in 2020."
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: TonyM on April 21, 2020, 01:51:41 PM
Tony,  what did you think of the Blyth Spartans ideas on re-structuring at EFL 2 and National Leagues in this weeks NLP?

Certainly made a lot of sense and worth further thought by the powers that be.,   Not sure they would be a great advantage to Clubs like Lynn who are stuck out on limb, but hasnít that always been the case.

I read the article and can see why it would appeal to them - Blyth is a bloody long way from lots of places so the more regional things are the better off they will be, conversely for KLT we would probably be as well off in the National as we would National North in terms of travelling.  Likewise, elsewhere in the BBC article that B&G has referenced Andy Pilley from Fleetwood is suggesting making leagues 1 AND 2 regional (again citing travelling costs)

Unfortunately there is now such a huge gap between each of the divisions from steps 1-5, mainly through the distortion of TV money that it is difficult to row back from, although I would question whether the country can support 5 divisions of 'full-time' football clubs, post COVID.  Certainly a case for decreasing the sides in the Championship to (say) 20 where TV money forms a bigger slice of club income compared to gate receipts ie loss of 3 home fixtures would have a lesser impact.  Division 1 needs supporting from above as its unlikely to secure its own TV deal so will always have to live off the scraps from above but again if that was it for 'league' football then maybe that could be made to work financially.  If you then made the current div 2 the pinnacle of non-league (possibly full time) then that could survive with a smallish BT type deal, then make everything below part-time within a regional structure.  The biggest thing for me is that whatever rises from the rubble is that it is built on sustainability and for me that means two things - a salary cap at each level (all the way down to the top of part-time ie KLT) and proper, independent audit of club finances. 
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Mallard on April 21, 2020, 03:40:16 PM
Can understand the regionalisation of lower level of the EFL at Div 2 and down into National League.  Less travelling bigger gates through more local fixtures.   Certainly that would help Clubs.  However the big issue is Clubs paying out wages that they cannot afford.  Surely low League and Non League have to now cut their cloth in the new world, whenever that comes around.

There is talk of Club owners looking to use the CV pandemic as the excuse to exit clubs and leave them high and dry. Maybe the FA should also use this new era to look again at The fit and proper criteria and bring into play for all levels.

Lots more to play out in the game of football over the next few months.

Tony, did I read it correctly that all Lynn players ( loaners apart) are all on contract until the end of April 2021 ?  So much for what the guy from Havant was saying about earnings as far as Lynn are concerned.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: TonyM on April 21, 2020, 05:27:32 PM
...Tony, did I read it correctly that all Lynn players ( loaners apart) are all on contract until the end of April 2021 ?  So much for what the guy from Havant was saying about earnings as far as Lynn are concerned.

The quote from SC on Twitter was:
"Accept the 2 year contracts situation certainly in this current situation not ideal - we only  have 4 players who are contracted from next season for 2 years the rest are just next season only so we can live with it (I hope)"

I suppose the key words are 'the rest' but would take it that we have a good chunk of this years squad already on contract for next year and four on contract until the end of 21-22 season - absolute madness for a step 2 side. 

It's all well and good people talking about 'pressing reset' and the like (and I would certainly be in favour of wholesale changes throughout the leagues) but this is where the FA and the PFA need to show some leadership and come to some sort of arrangement where pre-COVID contracts can be cancelled by clubs to allow them to survive.  Yes individual players may end up potentially losing out but I feel that is a price worth paying to avoid seeing a whole raft of clubs at all levels of the pyramid going into administration as their only route out of these contracts. 

Again I think this would have to come hand in hand with some form of salary cap from the Championship all the way down to NLN / NLS, would rather see that than a more robust 'fit and proper' test as that has proven to be very difficult to implement even in the woolly form it is now.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on April 21, 2020, 08:44:15 PM
Tony.

The PFA and FA may well be involved in such discussions, but a contract is a contract. The fact that its a football contract makes no difference and they will be subject to contractual law. If FA, PFA and Clubs just try to cancel contracts, I can see the Players, Agents and their Solicitors being busy in the coming months.

Apart from that, didn't the Chairman say only recently that he has always honoured contracts, in and out of the game? If so, I can't see him wanting to break that habit now.

He's put a lot of money into the Club (or is it better to say loaned a lot of money). To have any chance of recouping it, he's got to find a way to keep things going. If there's no income but lots of expenditure, mainly due to the wages of the contracted players he's signed, the option of failing to find a way of financing things until the gates are open again, can't really be on his famous table.

Maybe the investor is still being courted.  :dontknow:

So, unlessThe Chairman has got a trick up his sleeve, is he between  the old rock and hard place?  Does he throw even more at it, knowing he's unlikely to ever see it back again, or cut losses now and say goodbye to the money he's loaned the Club?

Unless players play ball, and are willing to cancel contracts themselves (I would assume the Chairman would allow this to happen) are there any other options? Have I missed anything?

Obviously if we kick-off in September, things may well pan out ok, but I wouldn't put my money on that happening.
 :scarf:
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: MARCUS ROSE on April 21, 2020, 11:59:41 PM
Tony.

The PFA and FA may well be involved in such discussions, but a contract is a contract. The fact that its a football contract makes no difference and they will be subject to contractual law. If FA, PFA and Clubs just try to cancel contracts, I can see the Players, Agents and their Solicitors being busy in the coming months.

Apart from that, didn't the Chairman say only recently that he has always honoured contracts, in and out of the game? If so, I can't see him wanting to break that habit now.

He's put a lot of money into the Club (or is it better to say loaned a lot of money). To have any chance of recouping it, he's got to find a way to keep things going. If there's no income but lots of expenditure, mainly due to the wages of the contracted players he's signed, the option of failing to find a way of financing things until the gates are open again, can't really be on his famous table.

Maybe the investor is still being courted.  :dontknow:

So, unlessThe Chairman has got a trick up his sleeve, is he between  the old rock and hard place?  Does he throw even more at it, knowing he's unlikely to ever see it back again, or cut losses now and say goodbye to the money he's loaned the Club?

Unless players play ball, and are willing to cancel contracts themselves (I would assume the Chairman would allow this to happen) are there any other options? Have I missed anything?

Obviously if we kick-off in September, things may well pan out ok, but I wouldn't put my money on that happening.
 :scarf:

"The price of investments and the income from them can go down as well as up and neither is guaranteed. Investors may not get back the capital they invested"  :countingmoney:
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: TonyM on April 22, 2020, 08:47:47 AM
...The PFA and FA may well be involved in such discussions, but a contract is a contract. The fact that its a football contract makes no difference and they will be subject to contractual law. If FA, PFA and Clubs just try to cancel contracts, I can see the Players, Agents and their Solicitors being busy in the coming months...
B&G, I take the point but football contracts are not 'normal' employment contracts - employers and employees can't just walk away from them in the way that would apply to the rest of us with a bit of notice.  Hence the PFA need to be involved and unfortunately they don't have a great record at 'looking at the wider picture' but football needs them to accept that the 'reset button' needs to be pressed and they need to be part of the solution.  Now I can't say how it 'should' pan out but when there is lots of talk about a number of clubs looking at the administration route to get from under player contracts as the reality of the impact of this virus on future income starts to become more and more apparent.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on April 22, 2020, 09:39:58 AM
...The PFA and FA may well be involved in such discussions, but a contract is a contract. The fact that its a football contract makes no difference and they will be subject to contractual law. If FA, PFA and Clubs just try to cancel contracts, I can see the Players, Agents and their Solicitors being busy in the coming months...
B&G, I take the point but football contracts are not 'normal' employment contracts - employers and employees can't just walk away from them in the way that would apply to the rest of us with a bit of notice.

This is the point I am making. If its a contract, its a contract. Neither side can just walk away from them. Even if the PFA, FA and Clubs come up with a suggestion themselves or try and steam roll the players, its still contractual law and the end result (in regards to contracts) will not be for the Football authorities to decide (without the individual players agreeing).
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on April 22, 2020, 09:50:47 AM
Now I can't say how it 'should' pan out but when there is lots of talk about a number of clubs looking at the administration route to get from under player contracts as the reality of the impact of this virus on future income starts to become more and more apparent.

Pre Pack?   :dontknow:
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Mallard on April 22, 2020, 12:10:22 PM
Contracts are there to protect both sides.   They canít just be ripped up because one side or the other decides it. 

It might be the case that certain clubs will look for Administration as a way out of their current plight.   Does that not come with a 2 flight demotion?

Clubs in the future may look very carefully at offering long term contracts at serious money, going forward.  Would that be a bad thing ?   Short term pain long term gain might be the forward for a lot of lower league and non league clubs.   Certainly the wind of change is going to happen and the days of agents and players holding the whip hand might be about to change.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: TonyM on April 22, 2020, 01:56:35 PM
Latest on Twitter

"@BBCRadioManc understands Oldham Athletic have asked players to move onto the furlough scheme or face redundancy. The Latics are not willing to top up wages above 80% meaning those earning above £2,500 per month face significant pay cut. "

Think this may just be the start, although Oldham were always likely to be fairly near the front of the queue on this.  Much as employment law should protect players the truth is that if clubs don't have the money they can't pay the wages.  That's why it needs a 'higher level' arrangement thought the EFL, National League, FA and PFA to sort some sort of compromise rather than lots of individual agreements, this looks like a decent start https://www.thepfa.com/news/2020/4/14/joint-statement-from-the-efl-pfa - extract below with particular emphasis on final sentence

"As a result of these discussions, it has been agreed that the EFL and PFA will form a working group of six club captains/PFA Delegates from League One and Two, supported by a representative nominated by the PFA, to engage in dialogue in respect of playersí wages. While the working group will not be a formal negotiating body, it will help to ensure that players are fully informed as they continue to hold discussions with individual clubs.
In establishing the new group, the EFL and PFA acknowledge the common problems faced by the League and it's member clubs, and the need for all parties to be part of a solution. Dialogue with the working group will enable the League both to listen to the concerns of players and to explain the extent of the financial challenges. It will focus not just on the short term (May and June) but will address the medium-term position from the start of July onwards and into next season."

Without wishing to add to the doom and gloom, quick article from AFC Fylde chairman https://nonleaguedaily.com/im-not-gonna-support-the-football-club-at-the-level-that-ive-supported-it-before-during-shutdown-afc-fylde-chairman/  with the key takeaway being that he (rightly) says "itís morally wrong for me to ask all my managers in my, shall we say, Ďreal businessí, to take pay cuts, or to furlough people on the government scheme, and to have to terminate some people, while at the same time fund my football club Ė which, as I explained, of that 95 percent is wages Ė and to pay every single player full wages"

Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on April 22, 2020, 03:40:42 PM
Without wishing to add to the doom and gloom, quick article from AFC Fylde chairman https://nonleaguedaily.com/im-not-gonna-support-the-football-club-at-the-level-that-ive-supported-it-before-during-shutdown-afc-fylde-chairman/  with the key takeaway being that he (rightly) says "itís morally wrong for me to ask all my managers in my, shall we say, Ďreal businessí, to take pay cuts, or to furlough people on the government scheme, and to have to terminate some people, while at the same time fund my football club Ė which, as I explained, of that 95 percent is wages Ė and to pay every single player full wages"

100% agree with him and would like to think that any players would understand the situation and not cause any problems.   :dontknow:
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Mallard on April 25, 2020, 08:38:36 AM
 Interesting listening to the Chairmans podcast.   He certainly gives some thought provoking views on various subjects.   Some really off the wall ideas involving ifollow ( whose marketing is not very good, cough).   Not sure Stephen has done his homework on facts and figures though in particular when he talks about Rotherham and their gates.

Some other interesting snippets from the Chairman on overhead costs like water, Electricity and rent ! ( really ? Who does he pay that to? ). Think we are very lucky as Club when compared to say Boston Utd who have been paying 72K per annum for York Street.  Good that we have an understanding Local council.

Stephen also addressed the issue of loans he has made to the Club which it seems are paid out from his other non Football profit making businessís.   

All very much worth a listen.   
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: TonyM on May 11, 2020, 01:39:32 PM
Finally caught up with the latest episodes (5 & 6) of SC's podcasts, could still do with a bit of editing although he has previously explained that this isn't currently possible in how they are recorded and his technical expertise but 90 mins + could be viewed as 'too long'.  That said two interesting guests with a common thread

Episode 5 had Martin Knight from Bradford PA who seems to have an impressive CV in business but still new in post and to football, so will be interesting to watch how things develop.  SC seems keen on the streaming model and that was the main topic with Martin but think both may be a bit optimistic with possible numbers and value, also to come out was how little of the National League's BT money made it's way down to NLS and NLN clubs.  One thing this COVID situation has highlighted is the gaps between the various steps in the football ladder and maybe post-COVID we may see a realignment - could argue that div 2 and NL have more in common than with div 1 and certainly NLN and NLS clubs will probably look more like their step 3 counterparts than NL sides in the future.

Episode 6 had Kieron Maguire, who has written a book - The Price of Football - and is a lecturer on football finance.  Admitted he didn't know much about step 2 but some good insights to football finance in general.  Funniest bit for me was when talking about streaming and suggested that clubs needed to be realistic about where they are in the pecking order and that ultimately it would be a race to the bottom ie if all of football adopted the streaming model and Everton were offering their games at £5 a go where would that leave a step 2 side in terms of pricing?  Think the penny sort of dropped for SC although he bravely carried on thinking that there was more value to KLTFC than is probably the case (can never accuse SC of underselling when it comes to pricing!).

All in all the podcasts are an interesting listen both as a general fan but also from a Lynn fan's perspective to give a better view on SC's thought processes.  He is obviously open to ideas and changes that would benefit the club and the podcast is certainly a way of expanding his (and our) knowledge but I am still concerned that there isn't a board in place at the club as dictatorships, no matter how benign, are rarely the best form of management model.
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Mallard on May 11, 2020, 05:46:31 PM
Iíve listened to some of each podcast, but must say at 1.5 hours is beyond my attention span for listening to two people chat.

Having said that I do find interesting snippets and have to congratulate SC in some of his forward thinking ideas/ways.  Although for our level some bounce straight off the ball.  Still you have to admire the guys sprit at giving it a go and doing something to keep that fans engaged during these turbulent times.

In the last podcast in  the Q&A section ( best part for me) it was interesting to hear that SC hasnít ruled out supporter involvement in the Club at Board level, going forward.  Be interesting at some point  on one of his podcasts to see how he thinks that will play out.   Also how he sees other future investments in the Club to help share the load. 

One other podcast Iím sure the fans would love to hear is one involving SC with Ian Culverhouse.  Getting his thoughts on the past season.  Thoughts on the future.  Squad strength.  Plus the game in this Country as it stands today. 
 
How about it Mr Chairman ?

I was reading the NLP at the weekend ( my Sunday highlight). Two articles caught my attention.
Boreham wood Chairman stating he canít see any more football being played at our level in 2020.  The 2nd article was on National League Top Div side Solihull releasing 15 players last week.

Again would love to hear Stephenís take on those 2 news stories
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: TonyM on May 12, 2020, 01:13:51 PM
I have suggested he could have someone from a Supporters Trust run club or maybe the FSA as a future guest.  I had thought that Chester might be a good option but they may be a bit busy at present with the initial proposed takeover which now looks like it has fallen through.

Would be interesting to hear SC's take on both those issues in the NLP, although I would also add Paul Doswell's idea of a salary cap to the pot - SC has previously stated his dislike of FFP and this also formed part of his conversation with Kieron but I really do think this has to be part of the 'reset button' to include both a salary cap and some form of FFP regs all the way down to step 2, maybe even further.  They don't have to be particularly onerous to comply with but just need take out the financial doping that goes on up and down the leagues.

Not sure an interview with IC would fit in with the tone of the podcasts and maybe something he could do as a separate exercise as sort of 'fans forum' either with Zoom or maybe something KLT TV could look at doing?
Title: Re: Chairman's podcast
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on May 12, 2020, 01:50:39 PM
Not sure an interview with IC would fit in with the tone of the podcasts and maybe something he could do as a separate exercise as sort of 'fans forum' either with Zoom or maybe something KLT TV could look at doing?

Fully agree Tony. That sounds a much better option.

 :scarf: