Linnets' Fans' Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Captain Sensible on September 22, 2020, 04:43:50 PM

Title: The Future of the Club
Post by: Captain Sensible on September 22, 2020, 04:43:50 PM
Stephen Cleeve in the edp states ďIf we could cover the wages from the streaming from our home games I could likely cover the other expenses, the coach travel, utility expenses and stuff like that, myself. I do think without the stream money weíre finished. If not, would the players take less money during this period”?

If thatís the plan and we are relying on that,I fear for the worst.
It reminds of the time I read a book by Miguel de Cervantes.
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: TonyM on September 22, 2020, 05:23:34 PM
On the face of it sounds great that SC thinks he could cover the overheads so long as the streaming income covered the wages, until you read on that the "weekly budget that is now into five figures" £10K a WEEK and we still class ourselves as part-time!  On these figures I think SC would have been struggling massively to cover wages with matchday income had we not had any restrictions so to now expect streaming to plug that gap doesn't seem so reasonable.

Is it any wonder that the government doesn't view football with any sympathy with these sorts of numbers and when some are calling for a rescue package in the £15-20m range for National League https://www.bt.com/sport/news/2020/september/dagenham-s-steve-thompson-makes-plea-for-government-help-in-the-national-leagues

Whatever happened to 'Project reset'? 
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Dilligaf on September 22, 2020, 05:39:29 PM
When you look at one player....bale being paid 650K a week....a week. Therein lies footballs problem.. (not that I am blaming bale or any other player for taking what they're offered....I would)... :bankrupt:
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Mallard on September 22, 2020, 05:58:49 PM
10k Tony ?  I think you will be short of the Mark for Lynnís current playing budget for a squad of 21/22 players.   Then you have to factor IC and other full time and part time employees.  I think when you put all that together with NI contributions etc you would be close to doubling your estimate.
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on September 22, 2020, 05:59:56 PM
On the face of it sounds great that SC thinks he could cover the overheads so long as the streaming income covered the wages, until you read on that the "weekly budget that is now into five figures" £10K a WEEK and we still class ourselves as part-time!  On these figures I think SC would have been struggling massively to cover wages with matchday income had we not had any restrictions so to now expect streaming to plug that gap doesn't seem so reasonable.

10k divided by say 25 players and staff. I'd be surprised if its not a fair amount more than that!

Streaming income to cover wages, Chairman to cover away travel, and other such items. If that suggestion was switched around so the Chairman covered the wages and the streaming covered the other expenses, we could be in with a chance. Having said that, has anyone got any idea what sort of figures the streaming of games has attracted so far?

At £10 a game, we would need 2,000 people to stream each home game.
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on September 22, 2020, 06:01:26 PM


Whatever happened to 'Project reset'?

Indeed!

Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on September 22, 2020, 06:07:26 PM
https://www.lynnnews.co.uk/sport/linnets-chairman-fears-the-worst-for-national-league-clubs-if-there-is-no-support-9123869/
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Mallard on September 22, 2020, 06:19:32 PM
If clubs canít survive without crowds in at our level ( the elite few apart)  then sadly the League will need to pull the plug and clubís forced to mothball the Clubs for 12 months.   

This scenario was always on the cards and it canít Have  come as a shock to most.     Clubs have had since March to prepare for this worst case scenario.  All this talk of reset buttons being pushed seems to have all been forgotten.   

The warnings signs were all there, and seemingly ignored at their peril
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on September 22, 2020, 06:49:23 PM

This scenario was always on the cards and it canít Have  come as a shock to most.     Clubs have had since March to prepare for this worst case scenario.  All this talk of reset buttons being pushed seems to have all been forgotten.   

The warnings signs were all there, and seemingly ignored at their peril

Very much so on all counts.  :banghead;
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: MARCUS ROSE on September 22, 2020, 07:36:56 PM
Sounds like all you good people who have been "enjoying the ride", whilst encouraging SC to spend spend spend.  Now need to dig deep and bail the owner out.  :countingmoney:
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: TonyM on September 22, 2020, 07:41:19 PM
If clubs canít survive without crowds in at our level ( the elite few apart)  then sadly the League will need to pull the plug and clubís forced to mothball the Clubs for 12 months...   


Just to pick up on this, what would 'mothballing' actually look like?  SC made the comment that when it was announced the new season wouldn't start on 1st August, that most players had agreed to defer their start date until the season actually started (at the time he said one hadn't agreed).  Obviously players have come and gone since then but we are still probably in a much better position than many NL clubs with 'full-time' contracted squads and I would assume the PFA will pretty quickly get involved if the NL proposed cancelling all contracts for 2020/21
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Mallard on September 22, 2020, 07:59:11 PM
Well Gordon has to do something to show he is worth that salary. 
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Loughborough Linnet on September 22, 2020, 08:46:22 PM
If clubs canít survive without crowds in at our level ( the elite few apart)  then sadly the League will need to pull the plug and clubís forced to mothball the Clubs for 12 months...   


Just to pick up on this, what would 'mothballing' actually look like?  SC made the comment that when it was announced the new season wouldn't start on 1st August, that most players had agreed to defer their start date until the season actually started (at the time he said one hadn't agreed).  Obviously players have come and gone since then but we are still probably in a much better position than many NL clubs with 'full-time' contracted squads and I would assume the PFA will pretty quickly get involved if the NL proposed cancelling all contracts for 2020/21

Puts the NL in a difficult place. Try to hold the league this season, and probably bankrupt most clubs into doing something they canít afford. Or cancel (perpetually delay) the season, breaking the pyramid, and necessitating the cancelling/deferring of over a thousand players across the three divisions they control. It would probably Be better to just cancel, rather than defer it for a month at a time, to provide some clarity. Mini-tournamentís in spring/summer for some kind of football, kick off 2021 in August.

If there was the will, the government could require the PL to keep the lower tier clubs afloat in exchange for still being allowed to play and rake in their tv money, but that likely wonít happen. Possibly some hope of an entertainment targeted furlough type scheme given the mood music on the backbenchís. That or 50+ phoenix clubs come 2021, including us.
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on September 22, 2020, 09:23:57 PM
Sounds like all you good people who have been "enjoying the ride", whilst encouraging SC to spend spend spend.  Now need to dig deep and bail the owner out.  :countingmoney:

That will be for others to  arrange. :rain:
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Dilligaf on September 23, 2020, 05:15:10 AM
I feel another podcast is imminent...
 :rain:
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Mallard on September 23, 2020, 07:15:18 AM
Mothballing a club can be costly as well.   

Upkeep of the ground. Overdraft, loans, Wages Rent,  Rates, energy, insurance still all have to be paid for.   Then refunds to such as Season ticket holders, advertisers, sponsors.   Then the contractís of playing staff, and non playing staff and/or redundancy payments ( if applicable).   

Thereís much to consider for the National League and itís clubs.
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: m a hill on September 23, 2020, 07:59:48 AM
Well I for one will not be asking for a refund on my Season Ticket ,the club will need all the help it can get at this time ,letís hope the Government comes up With something or a lot of football clubs will cease to exist.
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Mallard on September 23, 2020, 08:54:42 AM
If a good few clubs go to the wall then maybe owners, Director's will actually push this magical reset button rather than just talking about it.  Football has been out of control for a number of years.   Should tax payers really be asked to fork out for other peopleís mismanagement ?   Football clubs should be accountable the same as any other business.

I can see a good few pre-pack deals being done.
I wonder if someone like Tony from this forum can explain how these work ?
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on September 23, 2020, 09:18:48 AM
If a good few clubs go to the wall then maybe owners, Director's will actually push this magical reset button rather than just talking about it.  Football has been out of control for a number of years.   Should tax payers really be asked to fork out for other peopleís mismanagement ?   Football clubs should be accountable the same as any other business.

In my opinion its a no to tax payers money being spent on this (although I do think its a big possibility). Why should the taxpayer have this burden when we have seen how unwilling the majority
of supporters appear to be when it comes to fund raising for their own Clubs. There's far more important things for the tax payers money to be spent on, especially when you see and hear stories of Clubs allowing their players and supporters to break social distancing rules. Some Clubs and Supporters really don't help themselves. A major reason for these tougher restrictions is down to people not adhering to the social distancing rules previously put in place.

Premier League could do more, as medium to long term its in their interest to do so. 20m is only a short term answer. Lets not forget that many Clubs have overspent and have serious debts or loans even prior to the Pandemic. If Clubs are living "hand to mouth" anyway, the problem is not going to go away just because they receive funds from Govt or Premier League which enables them to carry on the way they have been.

Is "hand to mouth" really a good way to run a business"? Doesn't that point out that something is seriously wrong, Pandemic or not?




I can see a good few pre-pack deals being done.


You may be right on that one. If Clubs are being sensible they should at least have it available as an option.
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Non League on September 23, 2020, 11:00:10 AM
In my opinion, Premier League (or likely end up being Government), need to put X amount towards non league game and mothball it. The money will go towards covering all (or vast majority of playing wages i.e. 80% if they're legally contracted), and grants towards upkeep of stadiums whilst clubs are mothballed. That way, clubs owners are not pocketing any money and it's ALL towards keeping club alive till August 2021, when season can start with fans hopefully.

Players that are not legally contracted to club can be released (just like loads of other businesses that will unfortunately have to let staff go). There's no way non league can play and survive a whole season without fans. On the fans, are they still allowed step 3 and under?

I'd very cautious about allowing fans in from Step 1 down, and giving clubs money to cover 'losses' from reduced fans. Because we all know how clubs think. That money will just go towards a signing or two, to push for promotion.
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Mallard on September 23, 2020, 11:07:19 AM
https://t.co/GmKt5KFMK7?amp=1

Well worth a listen to the Boreham Wood Chairman.
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Nemesis on September 23, 2020, 11:30:51 AM
Interesting listen.
I watched the Hashtag v Soham penalty shoot out. No attempt at social distancing, quite ridiculous.
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: gs50 on September 23, 2020, 11:45:10 AM
Excellent watch obviously well run club adamant no hand out's should be asked of government.Have to admit what exactly were the new measures introduced yesterday. People who went back to work are not going to start working from home again. Lots of pubs already close at ten for safety of staff. No supporters have been allowed to watch at our level and above no change there.We need to stop people travelling to stop virus spreading and stop households meeting inside. Like B W chairman said let's start to do things which is for safety of supporters.
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on September 23, 2020, 12:07:43 PM
"If" there are to be Govt handouts it shouldn't be a one size fits all.

Each Club should have to put in their own application, and each application should be assessed on its own merits. Why give taxpayers money to Clubs that are on the brink of collapse anyway, Pandemic or not. Full and up to date accounts should be assessed prior to receipt of any grant money.

No direct payments to the Clubs (for reasons previously quoted by NonLeague), but paid directly to the relevant parties e.g. rates, utilities etc. This would also stop people that have loaned money on a personal basis to clubs, reducing their debt exposure with any grant money.

Players on contract is a tricky one, but all parties need to play ball here. There are part time players where football is the players second job. Why should they receive money from the Govt for their second jobs, when so many people are losing their main incomes? Contracts are a two way street. Clubs wouldn't complain if they had a player on contracts that they could then sell on for a tidy profit. If Clubs had decided to put so many players on contracts this season, especially with what we had learned from experience at the end of last season, were they not asking for trouble? There was always a good chance of further restrictions and for obvious reasons such things as Sports were always going to be affected. Did the people involved think this Pandemic would just go away, or have they always been confident someone else would pick up their bill.

I would like to see some money put into Non League football, but not if it means that it will carry on as it has been doing. I also hope that any money made available comes from football itself. I don't believe it should be taxpayers money. I believe there are far more important and deserving causes.



Danny Hunter, Chairman of Boreham Wood:

Hunter also took a swipe at Dagenham managing director Steve Thompson, who on Tuesday called for a £15-20million Government bail-out to help clubs survive.

ďI canít keep listening to people saying the Government have to bail us out,Ē he added.

ďThere is one London chairman who says the Government have to give us £15-20million to bail us out. You canít do that and then pay a striker £2,500 a week and then think the Government is going to bail you out.

ďThat is just crazy. We all have to cut our cloth accordingly. You canít spend huge on budgets and then complain youíve got no money, you all know what youíre doing.Ē


I like this guy!


Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Dilligaf on September 23, 2020, 12:42:49 PM
Precisely b&g...and hes right.
There is and never will be any sense of reality or compassion towards lower league clubs from the premier league.
For one...several of them were quite happy to walk away and form a European elite league
And two.....when the likes of Liverpool (initially)Spurs who are happy to furlough their own non playing staff....but are quite happy to fork out £40m £30m etc on new players....what hope do we have of them handing over money to non league teams that they have no allegiance to.
Football unfortunately at the very elite level is in a sorry state and all they are worried about is themselves and not the good of the game... :rain: :glum:
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Mallard on September 23, 2020, 01:03:14 PM
I wonder if Danny Hunter is available for transfer.   How refreshing was he to listen to ?   
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: gs50 on September 23, 2020, 01:13:10 PM
Boris look a like
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on September 23, 2020, 01:39:13 PM
I wonder if Danny Hunter is available for transfer.   How refreshing was he to listen to ?

Not just the latest interview.

Check the one from 4th May. He appears to be a man with foresight.
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Mallard on September 23, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
James Wild MP for North West Norfolk

3h
At #PMQs I urged
@BorisJohnson
 to look at Sports Recovery Fund to ensure viability of
@officialKLtown
 
@NorwichCityFC
 other clubs and sports 🏍 🏉 🎾 with reopening to fans postponed.
@DCMS
 is looking at this - we must ensure their future at the heart of our communities.

Is this the same Norwich City who will have two years of Premier League Parachute payments.  Who have just sold Jamel Lewis to Newcastle for 15m.  Who have a player on his way to Barca for 20m plus.  Who furloughed all their admin staff during lockdown.  Who have such a massive playing squad that they have some 18 ( yes 18) players out on loan.

Really Mr Wild, you sure they need more tax payers money.
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: KES80 on September 23, 2020, 06:48:55 PM
Exactly Mall and more to the point he is MP for NW Norfolk, so why is he even mentioning Norwich....he should have highlighted the plight of Lynn and other local non league clubs in NW Norfolk
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Dilligaf on September 23, 2020, 07:09:53 PM
They'll ask questions and mention whoever and whatever if the price is right....never trust an MP... :countingmoney: :countingmoney:
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Blue_and_Gold on September 23, 2020, 08:13:07 PM
This guy obviously hasn't done his homework!
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Chilvers Gordon on September 23, 2020, 08:15:24 PM
Well Gordon has to do something to show he is worth that salary.


???????????
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Mallard on September 23, 2020, 08:18:36 PM
Wrong Gordon ...... Gordon

Gordon Taylor earns £2m-a-year as PFA chief executiveÖ but he will NOT take pay cut during coronavirus pandemic. Gordon Taylor, the chief executive of the Professional Footballers' Association, will continue to receive his £2m-a-year salary in full during the coronavirus pandemic.
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Mallard on September 24, 2020, 07:50:25 AM
I feel another podcast is imminent...
 :rain:

It seems your wish has been granted with a staged Cleeve and Hearle back slapping exercise.

Feel a bit for Tony M. Great piece of Club PR there toward one supporter whose views donít match their own.

Now if he was to invite Tony M onto his Podcast to discuss the various points that would make for interesting listening.

It wonít happen of course. 
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: TonyM on September 24, 2020, 08:31:42 AM
Haven't had chance to listen (yet) but care to give me the highlights Mallard?
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Dilligaf on September 24, 2020, 10:06:28 AM
Aahhhh wasn't really a wish mallardÖ....its just he's rather easy to read....... :Sherlock:
When he has something to say or a gripe or moan, he uses the podcast as a platform to do that.
Like you said it was a very staged and rehearsed question time with one of the local lads..... :farmer:
I have a feeling that there could be another quick on the heels of this one.
Does make me laugh how he belittles the trust by saying it is a group of only about 80 fans.....but its quite obvious he reads this forum or even takes part (who knows)......and even then feels he has to comment on some ones opinion...... :dontknow:
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: westlynnmike on September 24, 2020, 10:26:41 AM
Exactly Mall and more to the point he is MP for NW Norfolk, so why is he even mentioning Norwich....he should have highlighted the plight of Lynn and other local non league clubs in NW Norfolk

KES80, as for your ".... he should have highlighted the plight of Lynn and other local non league clubs in NW Norfolk" here is an extract from the Lynn News article (Posted by Kevin Holland):

"At Prime Minister's Questions yesterday, James Wild, MP for North West Norfolk, urged the Prime Minister to look urgently at a Sport Recovery Fund following the recent announcement that the re-opening of large scale sport events fromOctober 2 has been postponed.

Mr Wild, who was at the Norwich City vs Preston Championship match that was part of the pilot events on Saturday, said: "This threatens the viability of King's Lynn Town FC, as well as other clubs and sports that rely on income from gate receipts and matchday spending by fans. Clubs need support to ensure their future at the heart of our local communities."

The Prime Minister assured Mr Wild that the Secretary of State for Culture, Media, and Sport is actively looking at solutions for clubs and sports."

I suggest that James Wild MP DID highlight the plight of KLTFC, other Clubs and other Sports.

Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: TonyM on September 24, 2020, 01:47:31 PM
...Feel a bit for Tony M. Great piece of Club PR there toward one supporter whose views donít match their own.

Now if he was to invite Tony M onto his Podcast to discuss the various points that would make for interesting listening.

It wonít happen of course.

Mallard, just managed to catch the first bit of SC's pod which is I assume the bit you were referring to.  To be fair to SC I think he has been a little selective when reading my posts but that probably comes from a place, like many business owners in the current climate, of being worried about what is to come over the winter so is understandably a bit defensive. 

We are probably not as polar opposites as some (maybe even SC himself) might think and he is right in pointing out that he has access to all the facts and figures and I am sitting behind my keyboard with far, far less information so it is much easier to gloss over of some of the colder facts of life in running a club.  I do understand his point about government regulations cutting the club's main income stream off at the knees but I am not as convinced as him that it should be solely down to the government to fill that void - there are many industries is similar positions who are having to make hard decisions.  Personally I think the football authorities, the FA and most importantly, the PFA really need to step up and be part of the solution but unfortunately the NL seems to be split so will not be able to apply the collective pressure to these organisations that will make them act.

Lets see what comes out of todays NL meeting, my fear is that it will show the cracks at the top of non-league between those ex-league clubs / those who think they are EFL league 3 and those who think they are playing at step 1 of non-league and may have more sympathy with the plight of NLN and NLS south clubs who have a massive decision to make next weekend when it comes to starting contracts by playing in the FA cup.
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: MARCUS ROSE on September 25, 2020, 07:48:11 PM
Here's the answer. Do as Merthyr have. Hibernate for a season. Restart next season. A way out without losing face, or the club.

https://www.merthyrtownfc.co.uk/news/boardstatement210920/
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: TonyM on September 28, 2020, 02:07:20 PM
Looks like the noises coming out of various NL clubs is that the season will start on Saturday, whether that is with government and/or Premier League support remains unanswered but would imagine we are in a pretty similar position to Wealdstone who have put together a pretty well worded board update here https://www.wealdstone-fc.com/post/board-update-sept-2020
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: dillydilly on September 28, 2020, 07:25:01 PM
We all hope our club, and also all our opponents, survive, plus smaller clubs in this area.  I havenít concentrated on the ins and outs to the same extent as others on here, because I have the cynical belief that all football is non-viable at present.  However, I wish SC and all at official and volunteer levels at the club every ounce of good fortune in the coming season.  AND, Iíd like to say how informed and interesting every one of the forum contributors are, on here,.  Now, whereís that third glass of vino ??......
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: westlynnmike on September 29, 2020, 03:36:10 PM
 :watching:
Looks like the noises coming out of various NL clubs is that the season will start on Saturday, whether that is with government and/or Premier League support remains unanswered but would imagine we are in a pretty similar position to Wealdstone who have put together a pretty well worded board update here https://www.wealdstone-fc.com/post/board-update-sept-2020

Having read the Wealdstone FC Update it is very interesting what they say about Season Tickets:

"Season Tickets: Clearly the current situation impacts our season ticket holders and creates a further challenge especially as there remains much uncertainty over when spectators can return and in what numbers.

Simply refunding season ticket monies in full is considered inappropriate given the lack of clarity on spectators at future matches and would have a serious impact on the clubs viability.

We would like to offer all season ticket holders a free streaming pass for each home league match played behind closed doors.
Where we already have your email address you will be e-mailed with an access code directly, however all enquiries relating to season tickets and streaming passes should be directed to seasontickets@wealdstonefc.com."

Please note Stephen Cleeve that it is possible to give Season Ticket Holders "Free Access" to Streaming. I look forward to some such offer very soon.
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: admin on September 29, 2020, 06:11:11 PM
You mean this . . .

Stephen Cleeve
@StephenCleeve

Sep 28
Forgot to mention we will give all season ticket holders free streaming and a free programme as compensation for their loss - we thank you for your loyalty which has not gone unnoticed - indeed one fan yesterday insisted on buying a season ticket despite us asking him not to COYL
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: KES80 on September 29, 2020, 07:43:21 PM
Exactly Mall and more to the point he is MP for NW Norfolk, so why is he even mentioning Norwich....he should have highlighted the plight of Lynn and other local non league clubs in NW Norfolk

KES80, as for your ".... he should have highlighted the plight of Lynn and other local non league clubs in NW Norfolk" here is an extract from the Lynn News article (Posted by Kevin Holland):

"At Prime Minister's Questions yesterday, James Wild, MP for North West Norfolk, urged the Prime Minister to look urgently at a Sport Recovery Fund following the recent announcement that the re-opening of large scale sport events fromOctober 2 has been postponed.

Mr Wild, who was at the Norwich City vs Preston Championship match that was part of the pilot events on Saturday, said: "This threatens the viability of King's Lynn Town FC, as well as other clubs and sports that rely on income from gate receipts and matchday spending by fans. Clubs need support to ensure their future at the heart of our local communities."

The Prime Minister assured Mr Wild that the Secretary of State for Culture, Media, and Sport is actively looking at solutions for clubs and sports."

I suggest that James Wild MP DID highlight the plight of KLTFC, other Clubs and other Sports.


Hi WLM.......did you actually watch PMQ's when the question was raised.......main emphasis was Norwich and that was what Boris heard and mentioned..I am paraphrasing but Boris said something like "Yes, I agree we must and will do something to protect the Norwich Citys of this world"......hence my post WLM
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Coastal linnet on September 29, 2020, 09:00:08 PM
just been half listening to Radio five. Conversation about non league football and the government agreeing to compensate clubs for lost revenue during Covid crowd restrictions
Title: Re: The Future of the Club
Post by: Coastal linnet on September 29, 2020, 10:10:51 PM
Rescue package of around 20 million for National League clubs