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Messages - Blue_and_Gold

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General Discussion / Re: The big vote
« on: April 24, 2020, 09:19:08 PM »
Meanwhile, in the Netherlands.

The Eredivisie - the top tier of football in the Netherlands - has been abandoned for the season with no title winner and no teams relegated.

The move comes after the national government banned major events until 1 September because of coronavirus.

Dutch football's governing body the KNVB said "it has become impossible to play out the 2019-20 season".

Ajax led the table from AZ Alkmaar on goal difference with nine games left but will not be named champions.

Both Ajax and AZ Alkmaar will go into the Champions League qualifying stages, pending ratification by Uefa.

No sides will be relegated or promoted, meaning Cambuur - who topped the second tier and held an 11-point gap over the play-off positions - will not go up.

Cambuur head coach Henk de John told broadcaster NOS the decision felt "like the biggest disgrace in the history of Dutch sport".

The KNVB added: "The KNVB is aware that whatever decision had to be made, every option would hurt somewhere.

"It will be crystal clear to everyone involved, from supporters and players to directors and referees, that public health always comes first.

"Nevertheless, the professional football board is aware that today's decisions will cause great disappointment in football for some.

The Eredivisie has never ended a season without a champion being named since it was formed in 1956.

The KNVB added that clubs could not be promoted from the second tier without relegation from the top division, in order to ensure there was no fixture congestion next season.

The body said it consulted with the parties involved and asked them to vote for "no relegation and no promotion" or "relegation and promotion" - but the result returned "no clear preference", resulting in the KNVB being left to take the decision.

"Because many rounds still have to be played in the competitions, we believe that we cannot apply promotion/relegation and that is decided," the KNVB added.

Third-place Feyenoord will qualify for the Europa League group stages, with fourth-placed PSV and fifth-placed Willem II entering the qualifying stages of the competition, subject to Uefa's approval.

Football authorities in neighbouring Belgium are expected to decide whether to ratify the cancellation of its top-flight Pro League on Friday.

General Discussion / Re: The big vote
« on: April 24, 2020, 10:36:44 AM »
Can see next 'season' being a time of massive financial reorientation......not just in football.

Very much so. The reset button won't apply just to football!

General Discussion / Re: The big vote
« on: April 24, 2020, 09:34:56 AM »
All irrelevant there will be social distancing until early next year at the earliest.

Just wondering.

What are peoples thoughts on next season, irrespective of the level we will be playing at?

i.e. Will we start in September?
     Will there even be a 2020/21 season (of any sorts)?
     If there is no football, what options does that leave the Club?


General Discussion / Re: The big vote
« on: April 23, 2020, 02:26:09 PM »
From Home page:

Having received the majority of votes from member clubs it has been announced by the National League that the remaining league matches of the season have been cancelled.
The next step will be to the decide upon the "options concerning the sporting outcomes of the 2019/20 season [which will] remain under careful and timely consideration, and further updates will be given in due course."
So Lynn end the 2019-20 season in second spot with two games in hand over leaders York City and two points behind but on a run which had seen them reap just four points from a possible eighteen.
What an interesting end to the season it might have been.

General Discussion / Re: Chairman's podcast
« on: April 22, 2020, 03:40:42 PM »
Without wishing to add to the doom and gloom, quick article from AFC Fylde chairman  with the key takeaway being that he (rightly) says "it’s morally wrong for me to ask all my managers in my, shall we say, ‘real business’, to take pay cuts, or to furlough people on the government scheme, and to have to terminate some people, while at the same time fund my football club – which, as I explained, of that 95 percent is wages – and to pay every single player full wages"

100% agree with him and would like to think that any players would understand the situation and not cause any problems.   :dontknow:

General Discussion / Re: Chairman's podcast
« on: April 22, 2020, 09:50:47 AM »
Now I can't say how it 'should' pan out but when there is lots of talk about a number of clubs looking at the administration route to get from under player contracts as the reality of the impact of this virus on future income starts to become more and more apparent.

Pre Pack?   :dontknow:

General Discussion / Re: Chairman's podcast
« on: April 22, 2020, 09:39:58 AM »
...The PFA and FA may well be involved in such discussions, but a contract is a contract. The fact that its a football contract makes no difference and they will be subject to contractual law. If FA, PFA and Clubs just try to cancel contracts, I can see the Players, Agents and their Solicitors being busy in the coming months...
B&G, I take the point but football contracts are not 'normal' employment contracts - employers and employees can't just walk away from them in the way that would apply to the rest of us with a bit of notice.

This is the point I am making. If its a contract, its a contract. Neither side can just walk away from them. Even if the PFA, FA and Clubs come up with a suggestion themselves or try and steam roll the players, its still contractual law and the end result (in regards to contracts) will not be for the Football authorities to decide (without the individual players agreeing).

General Discussion / Re: Chairman's podcast
« on: April 21, 2020, 08:44:15 PM »

The PFA and FA may well be involved in such discussions, but a contract is a contract. The fact that its a football contract makes no difference and they will be subject to contractual law. If FA, PFA and Clubs just try to cancel contracts, I can see the Players, Agents and their Solicitors being busy in the coming months.

Apart from that, didn't the Chairman say only recently that he has always honoured contracts, in and out of the game? If so, I can't see him wanting to break that habit now.

He's put a lot of money into the Club (or is it better to say loaned a lot of money). To have any chance of recouping it, he's got to find a way to keep things going. If there's no income but lots of expenditure, mainly due to the wages of the contracted players he's signed, the option of failing to find a way of financing things until the gates are open again, can't really be on his famous table.

Maybe the investor is still being courted.  :dontknow:

So, unlessThe Chairman has got a trick up his sleeve, is he between  the old rock and hard place?  Does he throw even more at it, knowing he's unlikely to ever see it back again, or cut losses now and say goodbye to the money he's loaned the Club?

Unless players play ball, and are willing to cancel contracts themselves (I would assume the Chairman would allow this to happen) are there any other options? Have I missed anything?

Obviously if we kick-off in September, things may well pan out ok, but I wouldn't put my money on that happening.

General Discussion / Re: Chairman's podcast
« on: April 21, 2020, 11:44:12 AM »
Source: BBC

Mark Palios: Tranmere chairman expects 'double figure' EFL insolvencies

Former Football Association CEO Mark Palios says a "double figure" number of English Football League clubs could go into insolvency because of coronavirus.

The EFL and Professional Footballers' Association proposed on Tuesday that clubs in Leagues One and Two defer up to 25% of players' wages for April.

Tranmere chairman Palios said clubs will still not be able to pay on time.

But he added: "The PFA and EFL are starting to collaborate which loosens the paralysis we've seen."

Speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today Programme, Palios continued: "It will probably assist with the April wages, but I still think that certainly the clubs will be unable to meet the wages in April and then more in May."

English football is on an indefinite hiatus, with no play in any of the top four divisions since Tuesday, 10 March - and there is no suggested date for when it could resume.

Last August, Bury became the first team to drop out of the EFL since Maidstone's liquidation in 1992 - and while Palios thinks most clubs will ultimately survive, he anticipates serious financial issues for many.

"I think a certain number of clubs, on the basis of they can't pay contractual wages, will move down the path to a formal insolvency," he added.

"I think it'll be into double figures."

No crowds at games until end of year?

Andy Pilley, chairman of fellow League One club Fleetwood Town, praised the EFL and PFA, describing Tuesday's conditional wage deferral as "appropriate" and "sensible".

"It's not going to solve the problem, but it's a step in the right direction," said Pilley, in a video blog.

However, he agreed with Palios regarding the number of clubs at severe financial risk as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.

Pilley also predicted that matches will be played behind closed doors when the sport is allowed to resume, and believes there may not be any crowds watching matches until the end of the year.

"It (playing behind closed doors) is the only way we will be able to conclude the season, which is absolutely essential," he said.

"I've heard it suggested that we shouldn't conclude the season - I'm sorry, but I disagree. If you enter a competition, you have an obligation to complete it; to the teams involved in promotion and relegation, supporters, broadcasters and sponsors.

"I am the eternal optimist, however, I must be a realist. My prediction is I think there could be no games in 2020 in front of crowds.

"I base that on a statement made by the chief executive of the Bundesliga. They're a good two or three weeks ahead of us, and he (Christian Seifert) said he expects there to be no live football in 2020."

General Discussion / Re: Chairman's podcast
« on: April 20, 2020, 06:14:06 PM »
Think your argument about crowds being dependent on results, isn't so relevant at level 1 non league as it was or would be at lower levels B &G ( at least as it was under the old model before the virus).
It's never truer than now that the past isn't always a guide to the future. Lynn 's attendances in the past at step 3/4 and some matches at step 2, may have relied heavily on results. However , at step 1, the draw of the match and especially the away following of much of the opposition, would I think have guaranteed an average attendance of 1600-2000 in the season, even if the team were to I can't really agree with your stance there.

Yes, we'll have to agree to disagree.


General Discussion / Re: Chairman's podcast
« on: April 20, 2020, 02:45:23 PM »
Think you're forgetting Mall where the crowds were heading......over 4,000 for one game and would have averaged 1600 but for the pandemic, after a slow start.
So step 3/4 is where the club potential was at, before the arrival of Culverhouse and the energy and money of the Chairman.
On those crowd levels, the current level or one above is possible if the infra structure is ramped up........however that probably requires new people with expertise in business and marketing to be brought in and I am not sure the Chairman would be comfortable with that.

I am not sure how most of the 60 odd National League clubs are going to survive till next year, unless there are significantly bigger hand outs from the top maybe that a complete restructuring of non league will take place eventually.

50/50 on this one Kes.

The point is that money has been thrown at the Club. That's the reason for the on field success, and its not sustainable. Even if we were playing at a higher level, unless we were winning and challenging, I think the gates would fall as they have done previously. IMO winning games is what brings the people through the turn styles, more than the level they play at.

I agree that other activities need to be ramped up. You need class on the pitch to succeed, and you need class off the pitch, with the expertise in business and marketing, to succeed in that area. No Club has a God given right to expect people to fall over themselves to give it sponsorship or hire their facilities. There's a lot of competition for sponsorship etc out there these days, and most Companies will expect a return of some sort when investing in sponsorship. Gone are the days when these firms will just hand over a cheque because you are the Towns Football Club.

I expect it will be even more difficult and require even more expertise in this area when the current crisis is over. Many firms and individuals will have a lot more to worry about than giving money to a Football Club. Still, its a job that needs doing, but for any Club to succeed they need to make sure they put as much effort into this area, and have the right people, as they do the playing side.

So, if the business model at Lynn changed and the Club was sustainable without Benefactors funds, do I think the Club could maintain this level or even the one above? Personally, I doubt it, but would obviously love to be proven wrong on this one.

Of course the above could all be completely irrelevant anyway. The World as a whole will be changed when this is all over, and I'd be surprised if many are still of the opinion that this won't impact on football (and Football is a minor matter in the grand scheme of things).

As someone said on the forum last week.....................the reset button is about to be pressed.


General Discussion / Re: Chairman's podcast
« on: April 19, 2020, 04:01:37 PM »
The KHIST were raising funds for the club.

Sorry Nemesis, I meant where does it say KHIST were raising funds?

i.e.  Their clubs website/ Facebook/Twitter.
         Or KHIST website/Facebook/Twitter.

I was just wondering exactly which efforts the Chairman was referring to and when.   :dontknow:

General Discussion / Re: Chairman's podcast
« on: April 19, 2020, 02:52:29 PM »
I believe in his past programme notes Stephen Cleeve has praised the work of Kidderminster Harriers Independent Supporters' Trust.

Exactly what work is he referring to?   :dontknow:

General Discussion / Re: Chairman's podcast
« on: April 19, 2020, 02:31:39 PM »
Supporters involved is alive and kicking at Lynn.  Only have to look at The Clubs just giving page to see how many contributed out of an average gate of 1400.

Supporters involvement should be a two way street.   It’s a lesson that needs learning.

True, although supporters involvement should not mean "give me your money so I can spend it as I like".

General Discussion / Re: Chairman's podcast
« on: April 19, 2020, 11:39:01 AM »
Caught up on episodes 2 & 3 of SC's podcast yesterday with guests from South Shields and Wealdstone respectively.  Interesting and perhaps an unintentional common thread was how both advocated, at least an element of, supporter ownership.  South Shields are in a different position to KLTFC in that its seems that they own their ground (thanks to Geoff Thompson, their chairman) and their supporters share issue has been for ground development, essentially Geoff explained that he is diluting his ownership by issuing new shares not selling some of his shares for personal gain (reimbursement of investment) so all funds raised will be spent within the club.  Unfortunately the connection to Paul Rumens, the Wealdstone chap, broke up when he was explaining how their supporters were involved.

...........SC also said he has asked that how each club votes should be made public, not sure what would be gained but he seems to think it is important.

Supporters involvement.

Open and transparent.

The start of a much welcomed change? Even if brought about by current circumstances, a change in the right direction?

 :scarf: :scarf: :scarf:

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