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Messages - TonyM

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91
General Discussion / Re: Premier League £125,000.000 Donations
« on: April 10, 2020, 02:34:43 PM »
Not sure that 'fairness' is the overriding concern and probably merely reflects the relative running costs of the average team at each of the levels - Championship clubs will potentially be missing TV money as well as gate receipts so that probably accounts for the large difference.

Similar situation at National League level - the National clubs are getting £58333 whereas North and South sides are getting £13868, maybe a timely reminder for those looking for promotion as to what might be required to move up to step 1?

92
General Discussion / Re: BACK THE CLUB!!
« on: April 09, 2020, 01:59:59 PM »
Good news in the press today with the FotL making a £5K donation to the club

https://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/kings-lynn-town/linnets-receive-donation-1-6600704

This is exactly what the FotL is for, maybe if they were more visibly promoted and/or more fans supported them then they could make many more meaningful contributions going forward.  Only negative in the press release was a completely unnecessary sentence about the Trust which shows a complete ignorance of the differences between the FotL and the B&G Trust and is hardly likely to help relations if and when football does come out of this lockdown.

93
General Discussion / Re: All results expunged
« on: April 01, 2020, 01:46:24 PM »
Already suggested this in an earlier post about a week ago. All you have to do is bring everyone up to having played 34 games by using their PPG for this season and then next season ends up with each club having results for 76 games

PPG has some inherent flaws, if you are going to combine seasons, the fairest option would be to double up and have a fixture list playing all teams home and away twice.  Basically take where we are as a starting point and then take the unplayed matches from this year and add to next years schedule.  As I have said it might mean losing county cups and FA Trophy for a season but would be a more equitable solution.

94
General Discussion / Re: All results expunged
« on: March 31, 2020, 11:03:08 PM »
Nice idea but who would say what fixtures had to be played in order to catch up.
Assuming the target is 36 games, as Hereford have  already played 35, we would have to play one home and two away, but which ones?

It could be made to work, just run have a 'double season' over two years ie have an 84 game season running from August 19 to May 21.  Would have the advantage of rewarding this year without the unsatisfactory arbitrary nature of PPG.  Slightly harder on Lynn than York but having to catch up 2 extra games over the course of all of next season wouldn't be that difficult.  Think they would need to abandon the Trophy and possibly the FA Cup to make it work but we are now in a position where nothing should be considered off the table.

95
General Discussion / Re: CLUB STATEMENT + NEW JustGiving Donation Page
« on: March 29, 2020, 11:54:40 AM »
I seldom write on here, but have supported the club for 74 years . There have been many ups and downs but I have never been so disollutioned as I am today. Many years ago I was privileged to run the supporters club with David Wright. Quite straightforward  we organized thing, sold refreshments ran the end of year presentations any any surplus money was handed over to the club. Today it seems we need at least 2 separate sections collecting money supposingly for the good of the club, but cometh the hour of need nothing available. If the money is to take over the club when iut fails then I suggest you all WAKE up as your few thousands would last more than a few months, As was stated earlier time you all forget your ideals and realize that the club wants money now or it might well fold and I hope not Sorry for my rantings but I am so angry that a simple way of collecting for the club has been made so complicated. PLEASE TRY AND SORT IT OUT Thank you

Wixy, whilst I respect your opinion I would just like to clarify a couple of things. 

I wasn't a fan of the club when you ran the supporters club but everything you did sounds very similar to the work that the Friends of the Linnets continue to do.  You could perhaps ask why the FotL hasn't come out with a donation to the club's current situation but my guess (and it is only that) is that all of their fundraising money has already gone to the club so there isn't a big pot of money in their account waiting to be donated.

As for the Trust, I think we need to get away from the idea that they are somehow 'waiting for the club to fail' and think of it as more that they are waiting for an owner who wants to work with them - as many other club owners and Trusts do elsewhere in football.  I think SC had his 'card marked' by Buster in terms of dealing with the Trust and unfortunately there has never been a constructive working relationship established - even the Ground Development Fund project this season was made to be hard work.  It would be almost impossible for the Trust, given its constitution, regulatory constraints and requirement for membership agreement to just 'give' the club any sizeable donation and in a way that is the whole point of how they (and again other Trusts up and down the country) have fundraised over the years - they are not there to plug short term gaps, but to ensure the club is there for the long term. 

As to your comment about the whether the club could fold if short term funding isn't found, a couple of points.  Everyone could see the club was spending beyond its means well before this crisis, how can we be in a situation where missing four home (and six away) fixtures results in a shortfall of £100K?  Even if you were to take SC's figures at face value (and I have posted elsewhere about how they just don't add up) he then turns around in these 'troubled times' and signs a new player which has to be a kick in the teeth for those who have helped him out in his 'time of need', I would imagine it might also have raised an eyebrow or two amongst the playing staff as well if they have agreed to take a cut on their contracted wages to help the club out.

96
General Discussion / Re: CLUB STATEMENT + NEW JustGiving Donation Page
« on: March 28, 2020, 10:15:53 AM »
Captain, I am sorry but I just can't agree with some of your basic premises and to categorise "Trust", "FotL" and "Club" as wholly separate and distinct entities is probably part of the problem in itself.  I think the truth is there is far more overlap

Gris has already stated he is a member of both supporters groups, as am I and so is my dad, so asking if Trust supports FotL or FotL supports Trust events is missing the point - we are because many of us are one and the same!  I do take your point about the rump of the fans that attend the Walks every fortnight are not members of either organisation but membership and support are not the same ie I would imagine there were 'non-Trust' members at the GDF fundraising quiz earlier in the year, non-members of both organisations bought raffle tickets in their respective Christmas raffles and there are certainly non-Trust members in their 100 club which has been one of the mainstays of their fundraising since formation.

I do take the point about various snipes between the groups and whilst some of it is petty and unnecessary some of it goes back to a fundamental lack of understanding about what each group does (or should do imo).  To me it is fairly straightforward:
   * Club is the legal entity and gets 'commercial' revenue with sponsorships & match day income
   * Trust is there for the long term and by its nature, money raised needs to be protected so there are more checks and balances in place and I think they still have to be registered with the FCA (or whatever the regulatory body is now called).  Annual subs and fundraising is raised on this premise and thus large donations would have to have approval of the membership, hence SC's request for £15-£20K didn't really fit their criteria.  Where the Trust could be more active is things like the GDF where their MOJO of long term can fit nicely with the club's requirement of upgrading facilities as we moved up to step 2.
   * Friends of the Linnets are specifically there to raise money for the club and I tend to think of this as route for supporters to fund raise for day-to-day / in-season expenditure so things like the 12th Man, support for the groundsman, etc.  Therefore I would be much more comfortable if things like the Pitch Cover fundraising and the current COVID-19 supporters donations were to go through the FotL. 

Hopefully if any good comes out of the current situation it is that people are more aware of the financial position within the club although I think from previous experience, fans have pretty short memories and most concerns / interest is lost when focus returns to what happens on the grass so both supporter's organisations have a narrow window to engage with the wider fan base, lets hope they both manage to do this in a positive manner. 

Captain, as an initial piece of market research, as a long standing fan, what would make you support on or other of the supporters groups more in the future?

97
General Discussion / Re: All results expunged
« on: March 26, 2020, 06:20:11 PM »
Would have preferred to see this apply to step 2 as well so at least those part-time clubs could have some certainty.  Appreciate the PL, EFL and National have a different view as presumably they would be looking down the barrel in terms of repayment of TV money but they are also likely to be able to access the governments 80% scheme for their full time players.  Without details of the scheme being announced I would be surprised if it applied to part-time footballers whose contracts finished at the end of April and then where would that leave the clubs?

98
Press release from the National League as per the Non-League Paper (another worthy cause that could do with support at this time) / Borehamwood FC

https://www.borehamwoodfootballclub.co.uk/uncategorized/league-statement/

Certainly not an easy position for anyone involved, clubs, leagues or the FA and whatever is finally decided there are bound to be some who are not happy.  Personally I think the non-league seasons need to be abandoned asap which would then give clubs clarity in terms of player contracts and where they will be cash-flow wise for the next couple of months rather than keeping them in limbo.

Promotion and relegation is a separate issue and can be dealt with once more is known about what is to happen at PL & EFL level.

99
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 25, 2020, 01:35:28 PM »
Apparently The Trust Chairman and the Club Chairman have communicated with each other since the weekend.

Glad to hear they are in communication but, as ever, Trust board are bound by their constitution to put major expenditure to the members, something that both the current and previous owners have struggled with.

100
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 25, 2020, 01:32:33 PM »
Didn’t the Trust buy and pay for for the insulation of the 2 new sets of turnstiles during this season ?  Hardly the act of an unsupportive body.
That's very true, although I thought it was the fans who raised the money, admittedly via trust initiative and organisation. Are you suggesting that the trust have at least tried to work with the club but the club haven't tried to work with the trust?

All 'Trust funds' are monies raised by fans Stan.  The GDF was an excellent example of how the Trust could work with the club - fans who contributed knew their money would be safe due to the Trust's rules and regs and would be spent on the designated area and the club got a contribution towards necessary ground improvements.  The disappointing thing is that even up to its launch SC was trying his best to stop it being set up, although I do think he now sees that it was a good proposal.

101
General Discussion / Re: If the season finishes early.......
« on: March 24, 2020, 05:17:50 PM »
Quick update on non-league matters
https://www.betvictoristhmian.co.uk/isthmian-league-statement-24th-march-2020-61677

Still needs FA ratification but if steps 3 and below of the non-league pyramid are calling a halt to the season, I think the pressure will be on to extend this to at least step 2 as the majority of clubs will be under the same pressure in terms of player contracts etc.  Slightly different at National League level with full time players and a TV deal that will cloud the issue but does at last appear to be some movement in terms of making decisions.

Next issue will be if there is then any movement (promotion/relegation) or not and if there is what basis is to be used.

102
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 24, 2020, 01:33:53 PM »
Whilst not being a Trust member I fully appreciate the need for them to be in place.   Of course I hope there is never a need for them to help mount a rescue plan.
Quote

This is a fundamental problem for the B&G Trust, they have allowed themselves to be painted into a corner, first by Buster and now the present owner, marginalising them as a disgruntled safety net and nothing more.  Trusts at some other clubs have a much better working relationship with their club's owners and, in turn, have a much wider involvement with helping their club.  Hopefully, one day, this will also be true at Lynn, although I can't see it in the near future with how SC currently operates.

103
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 23, 2020, 10:47:02 PM »
Stan, slowly but surely you are getting there and now hopefully you see why I am so against the single benefactor model, although something tells me that you might have drawn a different conclusion.  If SC decided he no longer wanted the hassle of running the club he would be left with either getting what he could by selling it (if a buyer could be found) or by winding up the company to reduce any further losses.  I am sorry to say but with the sums involved on the directors loan accounts the Trust would have very little it could do to influence that decision one way or the other.
I'm glad that you think that I am getting there Tony: finance is not really my area. Here's another question for you?
If the trust were able to use their funds to support the club at the present time with what is basically a severe cash flow problem and the deal was some shares perhaps, it appears that, if your view is typical, that the trust would have nothing to do with it because of the current indebtedness to the chairman? So, while these loans exist, the trust will not really have anything to do with the club and because these loans will only ever go away if the club becomes either so profitable that it can afford to clear them or the chairman writes them off or the company goes into liquidation and the first two options are unlikely, the trust's likely course of action is to do nothing and wait for the club to go bust?

Stan, I don't speak for the Trust, I am just one member with one vote so this is just my opinion.  The problem with the current structure is that  the club is spending way beyond its means and this shortfall is being covered by SC through loans, if the club were to issue shares such that the Trust did end up with 25% then it wouldn't be unreasonable for SC to expect the Trust to cover their share of the any future shortfall without really having any mechanism to change how the club worked.  As for your three options, yes in effect the way SC has operated the club means any prudent Trust would probably not want to get involved, not sure I would class that as 'waiting for the club to go bust', more like waiting for the inevitable based on similar scenarios up and down the country and then being there to pick up the pieces.

104
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 23, 2020, 05:38:53 PM »
Stan, slowly but surely you are getting there and now hopefully you see why I am so against the single benefactor model, although something tells me that you might have drawn a different conclusion.  If SC decided he no longer wanted the hassle of running the club he would be left with either getting what he could by selling it (if a buyer could be found) or by winding up the company to reduce any further losses.  I am sorry to say but with the sums involved on the directors loan accounts the Trust would have very little it could do to influence that decision one way or the other.

105
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 23, 2020, 01:42:27 PM »
Would anyone want to ‘invest’ by buying shares in the Football with a big wedge of directors loans.  ?  Unless Mr Cleeve wrote them off ( or converted the loans into shares).
For those fans without a financial background, could you explain that please?

Basically SC hasn't 'given' the club money, rather he as loaned the money to the club.  All well and good whilst he is the sole owner as we all know we are basically one man's play thing until such time as he gets bored / runs out of cash, no real difference between us and Chelsea in that respect.

What I think Mallard is saying is why would the Trust membership vote to effectively 'burn' a sizable amount of the funds they have raised over the years to buy into a club that could still cease to exist by the start of next season should SC decide to call in his loans?  Personally as a Trust member, I would vote against such a proposal.

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