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Messages - Stan

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16
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 25, 2020, 05:51:04 AM »
" if you're not with us you're against us type of thinking and arguments"

Stan, that has been the ideology of this clubs owners since its formation, Not the Trust. Both have been more than happy to be one man bands. Which you no doubt know.
I agree this problem is on both sides and I did say that both parties need to be more open minded.

17
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 25, 2020, 05:47:54 AM »
How much of a circle can this carry on going round? Has anyone actually emailed the trust to see what their position is,or emailed the club? :dontknow:
There's no circle Griss. Tony made a point about the trust coming across as a disgruntled safety net and I've just expanded that idea from my own perspective. We've moved on from the original point about the trust not doing anything to broader issues. Sorry, if that sounds patronising but you did ask.

18
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 24, 2020, 05:49:04 PM »
Whilst not being a Trust member I fully appreciate the need for them to be in place.   Of course I hope there is never a need for them to help mount a rescue plan.
Quote

This is a fundamental problem for the B&G Trust, they have allowed themselves to be painted into a corner, first by Buster and now the present owner, marginalising them as a disgruntled safety net and nothing more.  Trusts at some other clubs have a much better working relationship with their club's owners and, in turn, have a much wider involvement with helping their club.  Hopefully, one day, this will also be true at Lynn, although I can't see it in the near future with how SC currently operates.
A disgruntled safety net is indeed how they come across, if I'm honest. I have seen a lot of implicit and explicit anti-club (in its current form) rhetoric on this forum over the last few years and would suggest that this hasn't helped the perception of the trust or their cause. I can recall being called Stephen Cleeve in the early days of his tenure simply because of playing devil's advocate and putting his case.
I like the idea of a trust in principle but would not wish to wed myself to a partisan: trust = good; sole-owner = bad or vice versa, as this tends to lead to reductive: if you're not with us you're against us type of thinking and arguments. For me the trust's ostensible intransigence at being ideologically against the sole-owner model is part of the problem. Personally, I don't care which model the club uses so long as it provides good quality and progressive football for the fans.
I support QPR. During the early '60s QPR's typical home attendance was about 4,000. Jim Gregory, a rich sole-owner came in and transformed the club to the extent that in 1976 they were vying for the old first division title and 35,000 watched them play Leeds at home.
Sole-owners aren't always the devils that some paint them. Perhaps both sides need to be a bit more open minded.

19
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 23, 2020, 06:29:41 PM »
Stan, slowly but surely you are getting there and now hopefully you see why I am so against the single benefactor model, although something tells me that you might have drawn a different conclusion.  If SC decided he no longer wanted the hassle of running the club he would be left with either getting what he could by selling it (if a buyer could be found) or by winding up the company to reduce any further losses.  I am sorry to say but with the sums involved on the directors loan accounts the Trust would have very little it could do to influence that decision one way or the other.
I'm glad that you think that I am getting there Tony: finance is not really my area. Here's another question for you?
If the trust were able to use their funds to support the club at the present time with what is basically a severe cash flow problem and the deal was some shares perhaps, it appears that, if your view is typical, that the trust would have nothing to do with it because of the current indebtedness to the chairman? So, while these loans exist, the trust will not really have anything to do with the club and because these loans will only ever go away if the club becomes either so profitable that it can afford to clear them or the chairman writes them off or the company goes into liquidation and the first two options are unlikely, the trust's likely course of action is to do nothing and wait for the club to go bust?

20
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 23, 2020, 02:43:45 PM »
Also, if the club goes into liquidation it would be sent down the leagues. Surely the trust would want to prevent that from happening again?

21
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 23, 2020, 02:41:01 PM »
Would anyone want to ‘invest’ by buying shares in the Football with a big wedge of directors loans.  ?  Unless Mr Cleeve wrote them off ( or converted the loans into shares).
For those fans without a financial background, could you explain that please?

Basically SC hasn't 'given' the club money, rather he as loaned the money to the club.  All well and good whilst he is the sole owner as we all know we are basically one man's play thing until such time as he gets bored / runs out of cash, no real difference between us and Chelsea in that respect.

What I think Mallard is saying is why would the Trust membership vote to effectively 'burn' a sizable amount of the funds they have raised over the years to buy into a club that could still cease to exist by the start of next season should SC decide to call in his loans?  Personally as a Trust member, I would vote against such a proposal.

Exactly Tony.    There speaks the voice of reason
But with a limited liability company a company can only pay out what it has in assets. The chairman can't just take back money loaned if there are no assets to pay them.
So, technically they might be loans but in reality they are gifts. If the chairman walks away he won't be able to get his loans paid. He could put the company into liquidation, I suppose, as its main creditor but there aren't any realisable assets, as far as I know, so what would be the point?

22
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 23, 2020, 02:02:01 PM »
Would anyone want to ‘invest’ by buying shares in the Football with a big wedge of directors loans.  ?  Unless Mr Cleeve wrote them off ( or converted the loans into shares).
For those fans without a financial background, could you explain that please?

Basically SC hasn't 'given' the club money, rather he as loaned the money to the club.  All well and good whilst he is the sole owner as we all know we are basically one man's play thing until such time as he gets bored / runs out of cash, no real difference between us and Chelsea in that respect.

What I think Mallard is saying is why would the Trust membership vote to effectively 'burn' a sizable amount of the funds they have raised over the years to buy into a club that could still cease to exist by the start of next season should SC decide to call in his loans?  Personally as a Trust member, I would vote against such a proposal.

Exactly Tony.    There speaks the voice of reason
But with a limited liability company a company can only pay out what it has in assets. The chairman can't just take back money loaned if there are no assets to pay them.

23
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 23, 2020, 01:28:21 PM »
Would anyone want to ‘invest’ by buying shares in the Football with a big wedge of directors loans.  ?  Unless Mr Cleeve wrote them off ( or converted the loans into shares).
For those fans without a financial background, could you explain that please?

24
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 23, 2020, 09:37:27 AM »
Saying that it was interests of the Trust that the club does not survive was without foundation.
Admin, answer me this: what is the purpose of the £50,000 or so that the trust holds?

25
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 23, 2020, 09:20:24 AM »
I didn't delete the part of the text that you refer to. It must have been admin which raises the question as to why would they delete it?
The post was moderated because it seemed to be a deliberate attempt to provoke.
Obviously it was not moderated soon enough.
A deliberate attempt to provoke what: legitimate discussion about the role of a supporters trust from a supporter?

26
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 23, 2020, 07:00:53 AM »
I also think this stuff about the players not offering to cut their wages is a deliberate attempt to deter fans from making donations because if fans don't think the players are doing their bit then they are less likely to make donations themselves.

Looks like the anti Trust drivel that was here in Stanley's post earlier has disappeared. Shame that. It showed what a clueless individual he appears to be.
Unless of course he could show his working out. He could still get half a mark, even though the answer was wrong.  :laughcry:
I didn't delete the part of the text that you refer to. It must have been admin which raises the question as to why would they delete it?

Perhaps Admin can explain!

27
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 23, 2020, 06:54:26 AM »
I also think this stuff about the players not offering to cut their wages is a deliberate attempt to deter fans from making donations because if fans don't think the players are doing their bit then they are less likely to make donations themselves.

Looks like the anti Trust drivel that was here in Stanley's post earlier has disappeared. Shame that. It showed what a clueless individual he appears to be.
Unless of course he could show his working out. He could still get half a mark, even though the answer was wrong.  :laughcry:
I didn't delete the part of the text that you refer to. It must have been admin which raises the question as to why would they delete it?

28
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 22, 2020, 08:16:35 PM »
I also think this stuff about the players not offering to cut their wages is a deliberate attempt to deter fans from making donations because if fans don't think the players are doing their bit then they are less likely to make donations themselves.
Why would anyone would deter the hand that feeds you ...no club no play no pay   :dontknow:
Who steps in to run the club if it fails in its current form?

29
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 22, 2020, 07:45:45 PM »
This is a time of hardship for many people, including fans of our Football Club.   I have seen that the Chairman is more than willing to support the club through this crisis.  I have seen the fans are also prepared to suppprt the club through this crisis.    If we are truly all in this together let’s hear from the Staff what they doing to support the Club through this crisis.

Just reading through the NLP this morning.  Aldershot. The staff there have all agreed to a reduction in their salary’s to support their Club.   

There is no I in Team so let’s see all sides pulling together.
I agree that we should all pull together but I haven't heard much from the Blue & Gold Supporters' Trust. How are the Trust currently helping the club stay afloat?


Stan have you emailed the Trust to enquire if they would be doing anything? Did you get a reply? Or are you putting it on here just to knock the trust again? :banghead;
If they are doing anything then no doubt they'll keep us informed. I've not heard anything Griss have you?

30
General Discussion / Re: The problem football clubs are now facing.
« on: March 22, 2020, 02:10:51 PM »
I also think this stuff about the players not offering to cut their wages is a deliberate attempt to deter fans from making donations because if fans don't think the players are doing their bit then they are less likely to make donations themselves. 

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