Tonight’s Match

[Mallard]

Stan, just one example of ‘hidden’ costs in running a club at this level. 

For me we are at a fantastic point in the Clubs history. Has to be some of the most creative football many of us have seen over the years.  That’s down to IC.  However it all comes at a cost.  What has now become quite obvious is in its present form it’s not sustainable.  I feel Stephen Cleeve is teaching out to the fans as he has maybe hit a brick wall in knowing where to go next.

The question is will he put aside his ambition of trying to fly solo with this project and bring in outside investment ?  We have this one chance, they don’t come along very often.

I do wonder how much due diligence Stephen Cleeve did when he purchased the Club from Buster?  If he did then nothing on runnings costs should come as a surprise.  If it needs circa 1750 people per home game to break even then when was the last time the Club was averaging those kind of gates ? People can bang on about the football deserving much bigger gates, but the facts and history don’t support that.   We do have 2 massive paydays coming up in Boston and York but these will be the exception not the rule.

[Linnet1993]

Worrying words from SC, and I definitely don’t have any answers for him. The shortfall is remarkable surely adding a commercial manager is worth the risk to see if we can make a dent in that?

[Stan]

Mallard,  the amount paid to the players and coaching staff is presumably very high - quality don't come cheap - and the chairman assumed that an exciting successful side would bring the fans in. This has worked to some extent as attendances have increased by almost 60% but clearly he needs larger attendances to fund the current project. 10 clubs in the National League function with 1400 fans or less, so, it can be done. I also assume that the academy not starting was quite a blow to finances.

[KES80]

Some of the possible solutions re sponsorship/ marketing are ones that may  take a little while to kick in fully.
Maybe the club should start a "top-up fund". Fans who can afford it and are paying £15 or £17, put the change from their £20 note into collection boxes dotted around the ground. ...... similarly have a donate option on the ticket purchasing system. This wouldn't be vatable. If 400 did this every game that might be £1500 a game or thereabouts, say 14 home games left, that's around £20 k  and would be a real gesture of support for what S C is doing.

[Mallard]

KES,  these initiatives surely should have been programmed in from the outset when Stephen’s declared intention was League Football, yet it seems Game sponsors are sought by the Chairman as an after thought.

I think flying solo has put to much pressure on the Chairman to be all things to everyone.  Maybe he has been let down by certain individuals who were given certain  roles.  His comment about the people having his back he wouldn’t need one hand is very worrying.  Maybe Backie, Mark Hearle, Norman. Then I’m starting to dry up.

[Mallard]

Mallard,  the amount paid to the players and coaching staff is presumably very high - quality don't come cheap - and the chairman assumed that an exciting successful side would bring the fans in. This has worked to some extent as attendances have increased by almost 60% but clearly he needs larger attendances to fund the current project. 10 clubs in the National League function with 1400 fans or less, so, it can be done. I also assume that the academy not starting was quite a blow to finances.

Historically the fans have always been told our playing budget has to be much greater than many of our rivals as we are out on a limb and to attract quality will cost that few quid more.  For balance of course many of those rivals have to pay rent where as we have our ground on a peppercorn rent. 

I’m sure that many fans would make more use of the Walks and support the Club if weekly functions were arranged.  I know Chilly use to organise this type of entertainment and was a real money spinner for the club.  It is really up to Stephen to reach out to these people and get them onboard to help finance his ambition.

Stephen Cleeve is the key to everything it’s his Club and up to him to formulate how it is financed.  As fans all we can do is throw ideas out there to him.

[LUFC1992KLFC]

A few things
Back in the day, just prior to the old club going bust, the directors of the time had a survey done by a statistics company. The result was that the area could only supply an average gate of 1500. It was with these facts that they took the demotion option. They knew they couldn't afford to bank roll it. Other things then transpired that was the final nail at that time.

"Some" clubs can run at a gate of less than 1400. Take Brackley as an example. Their facilities are not a patch on ours. Their overheads on ground maintenance would be significantly less than ourselves. Also we do suffer with our geography. We are a long way for most teams to bring significant away fans. Darlington for instance take a 1000 away regularly. Nowhere near that number came to Lynn. With our geography we also have higher travel expense.

One thing we could do better is our commercials. SC needs help in this area. He personally doesn't know the local area and personnel who could or would be able to help him with sponsorship etc. Bringing in a commercial manager is a big move. They would probably need to bring in circa 40K to pay for themselves. It really needs a team of people in the know. Who can call on favours. Getting those people involved needs to be a step in the right direction. Unfortunately SC one way or another became detached from supporters and some sponsors in his early days. To much bad press which was probably unfair.. That gap needs bridging. It will be hard for him to get those volunteers who can help, if he wont let them play some role in the club. The club needs a big character who is able to engage with fans and local business. Maybe without the emotion.

50/50 is down this year probably because the ladies who used to sell the tickets, I MEAN SELL, are no longer doing the role. Again its character. No offence to those who do the job today. I couldn't do what those girls did.

SC needs volunteers at all levels. Charging them for the privilege might be a bit much.

[TonyM]

To be fair to SC, there is nothing much in his programme notes that was far away from what an educated guess could get to, although maybe now some on here will finally dispense with the notion that an 800 attendance figure could be anywhere close to break even for a competitive team at Step 2 at the Walks.  I personally think something has triggered SC to finally come out and say it in black and white, maybe it was IC's frustration re centre back cover or something else but no one can now claim they are not aware - even if you take SC's actual figures with a pinch of salt the bottom line is that we are currently being bankrolled by someone who has gone on record as saying he can't sustain that level of subsidy (lets call it what it is, not investment) longer term.

Mallard's suggestion of a consortium of 'benefactors' is maybe one route although how many people with 'substantial' money to burn would then be happy to throw it on the bonfire when others / a committee are choosing how that money is ultimately spent is perhaps another matter.

Fans can and do have a role to play, Stan I can't believe you have never heard of the 12th Man scheme (£5 per win) as it has been discussed on this forum a number of times this season.  The Friends have fundraising schemes to suit most pockets / circumstances (pitch funding for those who want a one off, 100 club for those wanting a small regular contribution and the 12th man for those who are happy to 'gamble' a bit and may pay a bit more for a successful side)

I think the biggest contribution that fans could now make is to really get behind the GDF, admittedly the Trust seem to have gone very quiet on this which is unfortunate and doesn't help their cause but if they and the Friends could do a joint venture (maybe one joint 'super' Christmas raffle with all funds going to the GDF) and other smaller fund raisers adding into the pot (another quiz maybe?) that would start to address the most immediate financial cause of concern (the ground improvements).

Commercial activities are always seen by some as a solution to whatever the problem is but the truth is they take time and effort (with maybe minimal rewards in the short term) and the club itself under various owners has not been prepared to meet the business community part way - always looking for what cash they can milk rather than what relationships can be nurtured imo.  The idea of a commercial manager is probably valid but I think they would be hard pushed to 'break even' in the short term and the economic climate in West Norfolk so not really sure where the money to set up the sort of infrastructure required is going to come from

Finally can we also not look at the Academy as another 'cash cow' - that view is exactly why the last incarnation failed - this is lads academic future we are talking about and that isn't something that should be first and foremost done for a quick buck - the Dereham scheme has long term roots and is benefitting both Dereham FC AND the academic institution that it is linked to.

[Blue Moon]

Seems to me the easiest, quickest most obvious , although short term way to generate more income is the get more bodies through the gate.
What about posters up in local schools, contact local youth leagues, most kids will bring a paying adult with them.
Just need to generate new interest from new faces, can't expect the hard core regulars to keep dipping into their pockets.
Are the events in the B n G advertised externally? If only on here and forums etc it's a kinda captive  audience.

[Stan]

To be fair to SC, there is nothing much in his programme notes that was far away from what an educated guess could get to, although maybe now some on here will finally dispense with the notion that an 800 attendance figure could be anywhere close to break even for a competitive team at Step 2 at the Walks.  I personally think something has triggered SC to finally come out and say it in black and white, maybe it was IC's frustration re centre back cover or something else but no one can now claim they are not aware - even if you take SC's actual figures with a pinch of salt the bottom line is that we are currently being bankrolled by someone who has gone on record as saying he can't sustain that level of subsidy (lets call it what it is, not investment) longer term.

Mallard's suggestion of a consortium of 'benefactors' is maybe one route although how many people with 'substantial' money to burn would then be happy to throw it on the bonfire when others / a committee are choosing how that money is ultimately spent is perhaps another matter.

Fans can and do have a role to play, Stan I can't believe you have never heard of the 12th Man scheme (£5 per win) as it has been discussed on this forum a number of times this season.  The Friends have fundraising schemes to suit most pockets / circumstances (pitch funding for those who want a one off, 100 club for those wanting a small regular contribution and the 12th man for those who are happy to 'gamble' a bit and may pay a bit more for a successful side)

I think the biggest contribution that fans could now make is to really get behind the GDF, admittedly the Trust seem to have gone very quiet on this which is unfortunate and doesn't help their cause but if they and the Friends could do a joint venture (maybe one joint 'super' Christmas raffle with all funds going to the GDF) and other smaller fund raisers adding into the pot (another quiz maybe?) that would start to address the most immediate financial cause of concern (the ground improvements).

Commercial activities are always seen by some as a solution to whatever the problem is but the truth is they take time and effort (with maybe minimal rewards in the short term) and the club itself under various owners has not been prepared to meet the business community part way - always looking for what cash they can milk rather than what relationships can be nurtured imo.  The idea of a commercial manager is probably valid but I think they would be hard pushed to 'break even' in the short term and the economic climate in West Norfolk so not really sure where the money to set up the sort of infrastructure required is going to come from

Finally can we also not look at the Academy as another 'cash cow' - that view is exactly why the last incarnation failed - this is lads academic future we are talking about and that isn't something that should be first and foremost done for a quick buck - the Dereham scheme has long term roots and is benefitting both Dereham FC AND the academic institution that it is linked to.

I can't ever recall the twelfth man scheme whatever it is being mentioned on here. As only 12 people have signed up it doesn't appear well publicised, I would suggest Tony, which was my point really.
Can't see anyone referring to the academy as a "cash cow"  Tony and as I am the only one who mentioned it, I hope that your comment wasn't directed at me personally!

[TonyM]

I can't ever recall the twelfth man scheme whatever it is being mentioned on here. As only 12 people have signed up it doesn't appear well publicised, I would suggest Tony, which was my point really.

Its been talked about on here since the start of the season, and probably prior to that.  I just checked my last 15 posts (click on my username) and it was mentioned in 3 of them!  It is also in the programme and I think there might be a poster up in the café, sorry not 100% as I signed up at the Friends AGM so don't go looking for it.  That isn't to say it couldn't be advertised better but I am not sure how else the Friends can get their message out, picking up on Blue Moon's point it can seem like taking more from the captive audience.

That said, I think the 12th man scheme is an great way for those who are happy to 'pay a bit more' to do so and in an ideal world that would grow to the point where it could cover the costs of the 'win bonus' thus allowing the club to budget that little bit better.  No way that is currently the case and I would guess the success on the field has meant we are ahead of SC's payroll budget although I do appreciate we are also probably ahead on attendances.

[Les Smith]

I lived in King's Lynn from 1967 to 1975 and I have family still living there. In those days I used to attend virtually every home match with my father. When I moved to Yorkshire I attended away matches as often as possible. I now reside in Portugal so attending matches is not viable so I follow the matches via this website. It would be fantastic to see the current momentum maintained. As I cannot get to the matches would it be possible to purchase a season ticket for the remainder of the season and as I can not make use of it could be offered as a prize in a raffle or given to a known needy person. It would count as another person through the gate. I look forward to any responses.

[dillydilly]

Appreciation of your generous offer, Les Smith.  Someone would be pleased as punch.

[Les Smith]

With reference to my offer (see above) would somebody please advise how I would arrange this/who to contact. Thank you in anticipation.

[TonyM]

Les, I would suggest contacting the Friends committee (linnetfriends@gmail.com) as that is something they can probably co-ordinate both in terms of sourcing the half season ticket and then working out a method for choosing the 'lucky receiptient' each week (maybe a local junior coach or school in the hope that they might bring a few others with them?) but obviously that will be down to your wishes.  I know the club already have a scheme in place for those who struggle financially so would be great if the club could use your generous offer in a more promotional sense.