Author Topic: Financial help from Govt looks unlikely  (Read 1044 times)

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Blue_and_Gold

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Financial help from Govt looks unlikely
« on: September 24, 2020, 06:32:18 PM »
Have to say that this from the BBC seems strange when NL statement is taken into account. 
:dontknow:

Elite sport will be expected to "look at ways in which it can support itself" through financial difficulties arising from the absence of fans, the UK sports minister has told Parliament.

Nigel Huddleston said the government understood the recent restrictions put in place would "cause financial difficulties" to sports, but that the focus would be directed to "those most in need".

Football governing bodies have warned of "profound" and "severe" consequences from the loss of matchday revenue.
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westlynnmike

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Re: Financial help from Govt looks unlikely
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2020, 09:45:45 AM »
When to be Elite and When not to be Elite - That is the Question.  :dontknow:
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Mallard

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Re: Financial help from Govt looks unlikely
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2020, 09:56:40 AM »
Think this two separate Gov departments saying 2 differing views.  Hardly a surprise.

If Gov money is given to the National League how will it be distributed?  One theory is it will be based on your average gate of last season.   So the likes of York,  Chester Etc will get more support money than say Kings Lynn.   

Notts County on that basis could receive some 3.5 times more than Lynn.  No level
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KES80

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Re: Financial help from Govt looks unlikely
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2020, 02:01:03 PM »
That's the Tory way Mall.......same rationale for self employed...instead of a basic level universal income,  pay out at 80%,then 70%,then 20%of previous year's profits...great if your profits are high and horrible if they are relatively low....just increases the gap and to many people, just not fair.

Blue_and_Gold

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Re: Financial help from Govt looks unlikely
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2020, 02:26:24 PM »
That's the Tory way Mall.......same rationale for self employed...instead of a basic level universal income,  pay out at 80%,then 70%,then 20%of previous year's profits...great if your profits are high and horrible if they are relatively low....just increases the gap and to many people, just not fair.

Not quite as simple as that Kes. It was capped at a maximum of an average of 50,000 over the preceding 3 years. If your average over the preceding 3 years was 50,001, you get nothing.

Self employed were also allowed to continue to work, whereas employed who were furloughed were not.

And dare I say it, there's very often a reason why a lot of self employed peoples net profit are low.   :laughcry:

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Dilligaf

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Re: Financial help from Govt looks unlikely
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2020, 04:16:42 PM »
That's the Tory way Mall.......same rationale for self employed...instead of a basic level universal income,  pay out at 80%,then 70%,then 20%of previous year's profits...great if your profits are high and horrible if they are relatively low....just increases the gap and to many people, just not fair.

Not quite as simple as that Kes. It was capped at a maximum of an average of 50,000 over the preceding 3 years. If your average over the preceding 3 years was 50,001, you get nothing.

Self employed were also allowed to continue to work, whereas employed who were furloughed were not.

And dare I say it, there's very often a reason why a lot of self employed peoples net profit are low.   :laughcry:


 :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:



KES80

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Re: Financial help from Govt looks unlikely
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2020, 05:34:08 PM »
I was comparing self employed situation to possible NL situation which was vaguely football related B&G, don't you think...not sure why you have opened the debate to include self employed v furloughed/employed..but since you have done I must correct you, even if this forum isn't the ideal place :


Firstly many of those furloughed have worked throughout... potentially fraud from the system could be 35 Bn

Secondly furloughed people have received 80% of what they normally get weekly. Self employed profits as you highlight are after a number of costs (some fixed)........if the calculation was on an equitable basis it would be related to turnover, not profits. So  I for example received 80%of my profits on the first tranche, which actually equated to 60%of what I would normally expect...however...we didn't get paid that up front...we went months with nothing and as a close contact worker I wasn't permitted to work at all for 4.5 months.....please do me a favour and don't compare the two schemes......they are chalk and cheese.....vast majority of self employed are not big earners as many seem to believe

Blue_and_Gold

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Re: Financial help from Govt looks unlikely
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2020, 09:39:02 PM »
Thanks Kes.

I don't disagree that the employed scheme was probably the more favourable of the two.

As far as comparing the two schemes, as there were only the two scheme to discuss, its rather difficult to mention one without the other. There are reasons why the grants were distributed as they were and employed were treated differently to self employed, just as theres reasons why NL Clubs requirements, when it comes to grants, are different. One size don't fit all.

Using turnover instead of profit wouldn't work. Different business's obviously  run on different margins, so you need to take the costs of running a business into account (thereby, in simple terms, giving a net profit). One company may have to spend 50 to generate 100 of turnover. Another Company may have to spend 75 to generate 100 of turnover.

It's never possible to please everyone all of the time. The Govt have acknowledge that. Im sur the NL will feel the same.

It must have been a hell of a job for the Chancellor to come up with something that was going to help the majority of people. I'm quite happy with what I know of the rationale behind the method used to distribute the grants...........and I'm self employed (for my main income).

So comparing  the method suggested with regards to how funds are distributed, paying all Clubs the same, a universal level amount, would seem very unfair to me. Any funds received will be granted to assist in a Clubs survival. As was said by the Boreham Wood Chairman, its not there to go and spend on a striker (as an example).

Therefore they need a method of distributing the funds on what they percieve as a fair basis. Clubs will have different financial exposure so surely it must make sense to distribute the funds, taking the financial exposure and running costs into account, rather than the same payment to each club (and irrespective of them  being NL, or North or South).

As an exampke, if a Club needs an extra 5k a month to survive but only gets 2k, it may be  pointless giving them the 2k. Good money after bad.

If another Club only needs 1k extra a month to survive, but get 2k, they have been given more than they require to the detriment of the other Club.

Of course, many other variables to take into account.

Just my opinion.   :scarf:
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Mallard

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Re: Financial help from Govt looks unlikely
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2020, 07:58:53 AM »
Trouble is if you treat all clubs differently then is the National League not in effect giving the bigger sides an advantage over the smaller Clubs ? 

Blue_and_Gold

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Re: Financial help from Govt looks unlikely
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2020, 09:07:32 AM »
Trouble is if you treat all clubs differently then is the National League not in effect giving the bigger sides an advantage over the smaller Clubs ?

Maybe.  :dontknow:

No perfect solution.
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KES80

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Re: Financial help from Govt looks unlikely
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2020, 10:15:12 AM »
Can't agree with you B & G........the grant money IMO, be it for self employed or teams in the NL should be the same...a basic survival amount...... everyone needs a certain basic amount to pay for food and shelter and each club in the NL has basic costs..people and clubs need to pare down their costs to the basics to survive (I am sure the NL could come up with a reasonable figure based on a capped salary figure plus a figure towards average running costs.......attendance should be irrelevant)

I am familiar with the various financial considerations in these arguments as you undoubtedly are B and G....I suspect you have a decent financial background, as I do too, having trained with Coopers Deloittes and having worked as a Company Accountant for a number if years, in a past life :laughcry: :laughcry:

Blue_and_Gold

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Re: Financial help from Govt looks unlikely
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2020, 10:52:00 AM »
Hi Kes.

No problem with you not agreeing with me.  :clap:

A basic amount for survival is probably what a majority received. There was always going to be some that fell through the cracks, and that has been acknowledged. It's not an ideal world. Never has been, never will be.

I really can't see how we can have any grant money, on one hand being for a Clubs basic survival amount, and then have the same amount being given to each Club. Surely each Club will have (need) a different figure for the amount they need to survive.

That could be down to many reasons, with some Clubs being the victims of their own decisions.

I do agree that the grant money should be for survival purposes only, but there will be so many variables that need to be taken into account, that unless there has been considerable forward planning by Clubs and NL (unlikely in my opinion), there's probably not enough time to collate all the data. So, one size (or maybe two) will probably be the decision, if and when Grant money is made available.

It would be nice to see Clubs take this as an opportunity to get their finances in order. Personally I can't see that happening unless they are forced into tighter financial controls once this is all over.

 :scarf:
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KES80

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Re: Financial help from Govt looks unlikely
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2020, 12:01:12 PM »
 :clap: :clap: :clap: yes a forum for different and valid opinions B&G.

I feel this IS an opportunity NOW to bring this into line.
If the NL come up with a suitable notional salary cap for the calculation and add to that a figure for travel and covid costs then thats it.A simple figure and the clubs have to work with that OR the FA /Government provide a sum which is divided by 24 and given out equally.

If clubs have other unique costs they will have to pare them down, fund them themselves or go under........you can't possibly have a situation where one Club is more deserving than another at this stage, just due to individual circumstance.



Saying this in a light way B and G (no personal attack etc involved) but not sure you have grasped quite how serious the situation is out there..........many , many have not received enough to survive....I don't think the government and general public are fully aware of the scale of carnage that is about to occur.....many of my colleagues in Norwich have gone under in the past month .......this is about basic survival and some people are having to cut back to very bare essentials......clubs in the NL may well have to do the same...... it's not the time for preferential treatment.

Blue_and_Gold

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Re: Financial help from Govt looks unlikely
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2020, 12:58:21 PM »
I certainly don't thing that its a case of preferential treatment and I certainly wouldnt be an advocate of that. Not having a one size fits all policy isn't the same as offering preferential treatment policy.

I'm sure many have struggled, and many more will before this is all over.

Of course, some of this is due to current circumstances, but some, just like some NL clubs were probably on a cliff edge, before the Pandemic. Theres never going to be a perfect solution that suits everyone.

I agree that Clubs should cut back to the bare essentials. That will need a massive change in attitude by the Clubs for that to happen.


 :scarf:


Reading elsewhere, it seems the Brighton Chairman is against Premier Clubs putting their hand in their pockets to help out Clubs in NL.

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Dilligaf

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Re: Financial help from Govt looks unlikely
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2020, 02:57:17 PM »
Mr Cleeve needs to make his mind up....in one of his podcasts his says he is not an advocate of a salary cap....if an owner wants to put his hand in his pocket and pay out more it should be up to them, so he says....therefore he doesn't want all teams to be on a level playing field. But now it comes to money possibly being handed out....he wants all teams to be treated the same..... :dontknow:
Bit like some teams wanting to be classed as elite.....and now wishing they wasnt...