Author Topic: Dumb and Dumber  (Read 1917 times)

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Captain Sensible

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Dumb and Dumber
« on: February 09, 2021, 04:23:11 PM »
What a mess!At a time we need leaders of men,we find ourselves subject to sheep (some may say clowns) that are apparently incapable of making a decision. A decision that the man in the Street would be capable of making.Solely blaming the NL Board is so easy to do.Some of the Chairmen of the NL Clubs appear quite happy to criticise them but ignore their own part in it all.Quite happy to support them when free money was being given away,but not so keen when its not.Nothingís new when it comes to finances in football.Are Chairman only now realising that it takes serious money to run a football club at this level?Are there really no contingency plans at any of the Clubs?Money can run out for reasons other than a Pandemic,for example when a clubs sole benefactor has to call time on things.The Pandemic has been with us over a year and  many would say we look in a far worse shape than we did a year ago. I have to feel for some Clubs and their Chairman as they have conducted themselves in both a professional and morally correct manner.Take a bow Mr Parmenter! Itís a shame there are not a few more such as you and Dave Newton around.
To be granted as much money as they have been,and spend it in the manner that many of them have,only to cry can we have some more please,is nothing short of disgusting!Whatever sort of people do we have running this sport? Itís no good crying that they were told they would be granted more money,unless they can evidence this.They have been asked to do so but as far as I can see,not one Club or supporter has been able to do so.These are supposed to be successful businessmen running these Football Clubs.This in itself proves a lot.What other business would be given so much,then expect more? Iíll tell you. They are the same so called business people that always expect the hard working supporters to bail them out when they mess up,Pandemic or not!A policy of charging the absolute maximum they dare and then still ask for more when they have spent more than whatís come in!
Plan A or Plan B? Thatís laughable. What Plan? The only one Iíve ever seen is to open the gates and let it happen.If that is plan A,whereís Plan B?
As far as I can see there a few options going forward for The Linnets but probably very unpalatable to certain individuals.
a)Do nothing and follow other peoples lead.The easiest to do and suits people who act in a reactive manner rather than a proactive manner and have no ideaís of their own.Dangerous,as it gives you little time to react when you need to.
b)Carry on financing.Very apt that it sounds like a carry on film! Itís no secret that the Chairman has LOANED the Club several hundreds of thousands of pounds to get the Club to its current league standing.Pandemic or not everyone has now seen that despite this,unless money continues to be pumped in at such an alarming rate or much higher rate,this level is too rich for a Club such as Lynn. The important word here is LOAN.Itís basically a debt that the Club has taken on.If itís a loan it has to be paid back unless the person that lends the money is prepared to right it off.Please donít believe any statements such as it being loaned for tax purposes,unless the person saying it wants to tell you how that works.Unlikely!
c)We hear Supporters of other Clubs have raised this amount or that amount for their Clubs.Many are huge sums,some in excess of over £100,000.Our Chairman seems to be bemused that the same doesnít happen here.This could be for a number of reasons but the Lynn supporters probably donít like to be called Buffoons,see other football supporters being trolled and insulted on social media,think its throwing good money after bad,or they want to have a say in where the money goes etc. One thing that seems to have flown below the radar when other clubs fund raising is quoted against Lynnís is that these clubs mentioned are very often Fan owned clubs,or clubs that fans at least have an involvement in. Its not difficult to work this out and its only natural that supporters will give more freely if they are actively involved with the running of their Clubs.This is not just a football Club thing or indeed a Sports thing.It happens everywhere.The Clubs not only benefit from the increased opportunity to the availability of money from far more supporters willing to offer their financial support which is could well help the long term sustainability of their Club.Sharing the workload,sharing the responsibility and in my opinion something that is very important,share the knowledge and ability to get things done.If Clubs want to compete with the big boys on the pitch they need to compete with them off the pitch.WeItís no good being miles behind with this.If  Chairmen wants to continue with a sole ownership model they need to continue with the sole benefactor model as well and supply all the money required themselves.Itís all down to the people that have made the decision to put themselves in this position.Thereís been several attempts to get supporters to donate money to the Club money but sooner or later the penny is going to drop that itís just not happening at Lynn,and probably wonít in sufficient amounts unless there are some major changes.
d)Go into Administration to protect the long term future of the Club. This would probably enable the Club to survive albeit at the expense of its NL position.
e)Cancel contracts/furlough players/reduce wages and play reserves.Youíd really see which players wear the Linnets badge on their hearts and those that choose to kiss their chequebooks. The argument about these players being part time and having to travel all over the country and hold down other jobs comes up here.I suppose itís a pain when you are playing but a bonus when you are not,as they will all probably still be receiving their main income from their day jobs,unlike the poor full time professionals.Even if the wage bill was to be cut in half,carrying on until the end of the season is still likely to cost 10ís, maybe 100ís of of thousand of pounds to do,so appears as if its all down to the Chairmanís willingness or ability to do this.
f)Refuse to play and see what the result is.Relegation?Where would they put us?What if half a dozen clubs followed this route?Let them do it and put then put them in Court?What court in the land is going to go against a club that is forced to take this decision during an unprecedented Pandemic?Other Clubs would very likely support those that take this route and could make it very awkward for the NL Board if they want a fight.
Whatever happens or is decided upon,for our sanity and for the sake of basic common sense,just get it done!
Other ideas from anyone?

Dilligaf

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2021, 04:40:00 PM »
Oh boy I've missed your posts Captain....can only say I agree with what you've said.....and as I said and I think KES has.....if things are really soooo bad....why are we still playing and not refusing to do so?... :dontknow:

KES80

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2021, 04:43:20 PM »
I don't know enough re The Articles of the NL and the Constitution of the Board. Is it possible for the clubs as members, to rally together with a vote of no confidence in the Board. ?

 I suspect it needs to come from a higher direction, but either the FA or the Government need to intervene, to set up something new, fresh and workable that has strict financial and ethical regs....a limit needs to be set for each league in terms of player numbers per team, individual salaries and total club salaries and it needs to represent a huge cut on what is currently allowed, for the good of the game

Mallard

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2021, 05:02:49 PM »
Lot of sense there Sensible.   Best post of read in months.


KES asking these ex EFL clubs to go for wage capping
Limits is like asking Turkeys to vote for Christmas.   They are desperate to get back into the League and many have rich benefactors to will support that aim.

You only have to look at The Wrexham situation.  Big money going in there to get them back into the promised land.


TonyM

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2021, 06:12:38 PM »
Whilst there is some sense in your post Cap'n, you lost an awful lot of credibility when you seem to imply that Mr Parmenter has somehow acted in a professional and morally correct manner - I can only assume that was some sort of misplaced joke?  I guess time will tell if he follows through on his threats to 'withdraw' from the league but lets just say he has form in making bold threats that then come to nothing.  I think he has seen the writing on the wall and now he can't influence the board in his (and his club's) favour he is jumping ship.

As for the situation at the Walks, we all knew that the benefactor model was likely to be a rollercoaster, the only question was how high the ride got before the stomach churning descent came.  I am also not sure the 'options' are really options:
   a) follow the lead of others is pretty much a given in that it looks likely the NL will continue, irrespective of how Lynn vote.  The NL board have deliberately thrown this back to the clubs to avoid any comeback as it is the 'democratic choice of the member clubs'
   b) carry on financing.  I guess this depends on the depth of pockets and what happens should SC decides it has become 'too much'.  Do we adopt the Billaricy policy and play kids / non-contract and accept NLN next season or gamble on the current squad staying in the division which just means greater funding will be needed next year.  Much as I hate the benefactor model we are in an 'arms race' and until external forces change the playing field it will continue.
   c) I still think supporters could do more, even if I understand why at present they might be less willing.  I would like to bring up the FotL here but not sure they are even still in existence?
   d) I think administration is a dangerous option as it would bring a great deal of uncertainty and are we sure the club could come back again?
   e) It's much easier to talk about cancelling footballers contracts than it is to do.  I think we need to get away from assuming all the squad are here to play 'for Lynn' - it is a job to many and that is part and parcel of step 1 football, the standard of player who would 'play for nothing' isn't likely to keep us in NLN let alone NL.  Going Tuesday/Saturday for the rest of the season is a commitment and whilst we can all debate what level of reimbursement is 'appropriate', the hard facts are there aren't dozens of people lining up to play for Lynn for peanuts.
   f) I guess Mr Parmenter is going to be the litmus test for what happens to teams that refuse to fulfill their fixtures but my guess is if he follows through on the threat Dover won't be playing NL or NLS next season

Much as football is in dire need of a reset, this needs to be thought through across all the tiers of the game.  Personally I would love to see an end to financial doping and money being put in as loans but to move to such a system, particularly in the current climate may well cause more harm on top of what COVID is doing to the game.  It also doesn't help when the PFA win their case against salary caps in the lower reaches of the EFL (again a knee jerk policy that may have been a step in the right direction but very, very poorly implemented)

Blue_and_Gold

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2021, 07:13:07 PM »
I'll have to sit down at the kitchen table with a strong coffee before I can take all that in!    :laughcry:
If you choose to dance to the Devil's tune, don't blame others when your feet burn.

MARCUS ROSE

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2021, 07:46:54 PM »
Well said Captain.  I can see Loopy being let off the leash after that post. :laughcry:

Mallard

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2021, 12:39:46 PM »
If SC wants to get the club to the end of the season would he consider selling equity in the Club?

Something along the lines of 1% shares for say 2k a pop.  Iím sure there are plenty of fans who would help the club out and in turn own a tiny piece.  Maybe just 49% to be up for grabs so that Stephen retains the controlling interest.   Be good way of raising 100k (ish) and in turn give the fans something in return.   Has to be better than the previous ideas where he has asked fans for something in return for nothing.

Maybe FOTL and even the Trust would buy into the idea ?

Thoughts?

KES80

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2021, 12:55:35 PM »
West Norfolk people tend to be risk adverse in my experience Mall. ..........£2K for 1% of exactly what at the end of the season. If the worst happened what actual realisable value is there at The Walks ?

KES80

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2021, 12:58:50 PM »
Lot of sense there Sensible.   Best post of read in months.


KES asking these ex EFL clubs to go for wage capping
Limits is like asking Turkeys to vote for Christmas.   They are desperate to get back into the League and many have rich benefactors to will support that aim.

You only have to look at The Wrexham situation.  Big money going in there to get them back into the promised land.





It's the whole point, though isn't Mall..... it's not about asking, it's about enforcing through league regulation. It's no good bemoaning the state of English football and then in the next breath saying you can't do anything about it.

Mallard

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2021, 01:05:43 PM »
Does it make more sense to be in the tent trying to spit out or outside of the tent trying to spit in ?

Simple fact is, if the League continues as a club with a single owner MO is the where with all there to continue ?   If not as a Club where do we go from there ?

If we are stuffed with a one or two League relegation will SC have the stomach to start all over again ?

TonyM

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2021, 01:38:37 PM »
Mall, much as there is no such thing as a bad idea, I really can't see you finding a dozen, let alone 49 people willing to part with £2K even if you could convince SC selling half his share in the club with nothing going to him was a good idea.  KES has hit the nail on the head when you have called it an investment, lets call it what it is, a subsidy for running step 1 football at the Walks.  Might also be worth a mention in the prospectus for these shares that further "investment" at least equal to if not above the initial amount (without any additional ownership %) will be required year on year?

Have no idea why FotL would want shares, they are set up for all their fundraising proceeds to go to the club anyway so why would they buy shares?  I guess I was also unsure of why they sponsored matches in the past as that too seemed to be a pointless exercise.

Appreciate that people are looking around wondering what on earth is going to happen both to the Linnets and non-league clubs as a whole but hopefully as more votes come in and the short term future for the 2020/21 season is clearer, decisions can be made based on facts rather than ifs, buts and maybes.

Mallard

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2021, 02:25:20 PM »
There might be a few supporters who fancy a small stake in the club.  There also might br a few people who fancy a large chunk. Take people already involved with the club they could well fancy investing in the Club where they have an active role.

This might be the perfect opportunity to get some much needed help/expertise involved to support the back office staff.   Many people have decried that the off field situation has not kept pace with the on field  development.   New people, new ideas could = greater revenue.

Blue_and_Gold

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2021, 02:26:41 PM »
Mall, much as there is no such thing as a bad idea, I really can't see you finding a dozen, let alone 49 people willing to part with £2K even if you could convince SC selling half his share in the club with nothing going to him was a good idea.  KES has hit the nail on the head when you have called it an investment, lets call it what it is, a subsidy for running step 1 football at the Walks.  Might also be worth a mention in the prospectus for these shares that further "investment" at least equal to if not above the initial amount (without any additional ownership %) will be required year on year?
If it was for an amount of 2k each I think there's a chance, if handled correctly, that 50 people could be interested. I wouldn't rule it out. Then there's the Trust, who I should think would find it difficult to refuse if individual supporters were buying shares. Shares have got to be regarded as an investment by their definition, but I don't think anyone would regards this as something they would receive a financial return in the form of dividends, or indeed ever seeing their Capital back. Season ticket holders, current sponsors, people already involved at the Club (they may even like a bigger stake). As you say, no point in FOTL buying shares (even if they could), but the people involved could well be interested. As far as the supporter/investor committing the same amount each year, I wouldn't go that route, at least not initially. If shareholders want to vote for that in the future, then it would be down to them at the time. Make it as Open, honest, straight forward and with no complications as possible.

The result would be  that the Supporters are investing in the Club, the Club are investing in people and their particular skill sets.

Are they investing to keep the Club alive, or to maintain a step one position? Personally I don't think 100k would be anywhere near enough for the latter.

What value would the Owner put on the Club would be the worrying thing to me. If the equation is based on the amount he has spent at the Club already, then its going to be a non-starter. It has to be a very realistic amount or the response will more than likely be the same as the various fund raising attempts both he and some supporters have tried.

Would 100k in return for shares be sufficient to save the Club? Of course, that's if it needs saving, but the word "bust" has apparently already been used.

Would it be acceptable by the Owner? If the answers are no to both these questions, and the money is urgently required, what alternatives are there that are available that are acceptable to the Chairman?


Appreciate that people are looking around wondering what on earth is going to happen both to the Linnets and non-league clubs as a whole but hopefully as more votes come in and the short term future for the 2020/21 season is clearer, decisions can be made based on facts rather than ifs, buts and maybes.

The fact that they were given 28 days to vote just proves to me that certain Clubs in NL are trying to dictate, for the benefit of their own personal agenda's, to other Clubs.

They should have been given 48 hours to vote (7 days at absolute max). More nonsense from the NL!
If you choose to dance to the Devil's tune, don't blame others when your feet burn.

Blue_and_Gold

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2021, 06:54:37 PM »
Tonbridge Angels:

ďBecause of the serious financial situation, the club has reluctantly taken the decision to furlough its entire 1st team squad.

The club will continue to fulfil its fixtures, if required, by assembling an alternative squadĒ.
If you choose to dance to the Devil's tune, don't blame others when your feet burn.

 

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