Author Topic: Cleeve in the Norwich paper.  (Read 3864 times)

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Blue_and_Gold

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Cleeve in the Norwich paper.
« on: September 16, 2022, 06:13:12 PM »

I must admit that I was scratching my head five minutes into our home game against Alfreton on Tuesday after a poignant and well-observed minute's silence to honour Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II.
Looking around the stadium the crowd seemed very sparse, and my fears were justified when the attendance was announced at just 714.
The last time we played Alfreton in the league at home was also a September fixture, in 2019. The result was a 3-2 victory to the Linnets, but the major difference was the crowd, as 1,203 enjoyed the spectacle.
Everything else was very similar; both games were played midweek, the match in our championship season was our ninth game of the season and before that game we had amassed 19 points from eight games whilst this season we have now taken 20 points from the same number of fixtures.
So where did the missing 489 fans disappear to?  
Boston United achieved a gate of 1,450 on the same night and were bottom of the table at the time, so surely a top-of-the-table team cannot be worth half the gate as one at the wrong end of the table?
I have discussed this with many fans and have been given numerous answers: “Lynn fans are fickle, we need to promote the game more, the Champions League was on TV, energy prices” ... the list went on.  
Do Boston fans not have Champions League in Lincolnshire, are energy prices different there as well? I accept we can do more to promote the games and it is something we are working on, but I do not believe that whatever efforts we made would have brought in another 500 fans.
To put it bluntly, after deducting the VAT, referee’s expenses, medical costs, and other match day expenses from the Alfreton gate we have just £4,204 to cover all wages, training and travelling costs for September (this being our only home league fixture this month).  
To put it another way, once the coach to Chester and hotel is paid, we have already spent our entire gate income (excluding the FA Cup) for September.  I am sure some fans will say increase the commercial offering, and that is what we are doing. Indeed, we had six potential companies at our last game being shown what was on offer and we have a brand new scoreboard going into the stadium. It would be a tall ask though, to ask any commercial department to cover the entire club’s wage bill every month. If fans want a successful club, then they need to support it, as otherwise as an ex-Lynn player said to me this week, the club could only be self-sufficient if it played at step 3 or 4. 
Forgetting the financial implications, I feel sorry for the players and the manager who deserve a much bigger stage for their exciting brand of football. Comparing the two teams in 2019 to today’s team, only three players remain; Michael Clunan, Tyler Denton and Aaron Jones, and I remember chatting earlier this season to Chris Henderson about which team would come out on top if we played each other and from memory the result was inconclusive and only Chris was drinking!
Our FA Cup journey starts on Saturday, and this means the return of Gary Setchell, Pedro and other ex-Lynn players. It has all the ingredients of a great cup tie; Bedford will certainly believe that they can spring an upset  Gary has told me he is looking forward to meeting a few old faces in the Blue and Gold bar after the game and I am sure it will be one of those games that could be full of FA Cup drama and will live a long time in the memory.  We have reduced the prices for the game so adult entry is just £15, concessions £13 and children can sit for just £5, so we have done our bit.
I know that King’s Lynn fans love a cup game and usually come out in their droves at this special time of the year; now is the time to get behind your club and show your support as everyone on and off the pitch needs it.


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Mallard

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Re: Cleeve in the Norwich paper.
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2022, 07:01:57 PM »
 :sad:
What if the Hokey Cokey really is what it’s all about ?

Mallard

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Re: Cleeve in the Norwich paper.
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2022, 08:03:45 PM »
Looks very much like SC’s  Social Media ‘Friend’ has been reading the forum. 

SC portrays himself as an experienced Football/Business man.  Yet he seems to be struggling to see why things have changed in terms of numbers through the gate.

He has set his stall out to run with a 20 man squad, full time.  With overnight stays agreed for away games of seemingly over a couple of hours.  Being a solo owner he calls everything.  To me he needs to either fund it out of more commercial enterprise ( it’s been shocking since he bought the Club), out of his own pocket or look at outside investment and give up a % of his ownership.   If not then he should allow it to fund its own sustainable level.

What if the Hokey Cokey really is what it’s all about ?

John H

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Re: Cleeve in the Norwich paper.
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2022, 08:50:58 PM »
Mr Cleeve has got a valid point. If you were running a shop and you didn’t get enough customers, then the shop would eventually close. In our case, play at a lower more affordable level.

No game on the Saturday and top of the league, he is right to be disappointed with just 714. I’ve said before, that you need to approach the local schools. The players should introduce themselves and give free child tickets with a paying adult. Stop charging extra to sit too.

When Sunderland were in League 1, they wanted to set a new record for the heights League 1 attendance, which at the time was 38,256, set by Leeds. Sunderland wanted to not only beat that, but get above 40,000. They promoted their Boxing Day game against Bradford in every way they could. They duly achieved their aim with an attendance of 46,039.


Mallard

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Re: Cleeve in the Norwich paper.
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2022, 08:55:14 PM »
Charlie Methven was Commercial Director and was pushing that so hard.   Look what happened to him and Stuart Donald.  Mind they did sign Will Griggs on fire. :laughcry:
What if the Hokey Cokey really is what it’s all about ?

Blue_and_Gold

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Re: Cleeve in the Norwich paper.
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2022, 11:20:02 PM »
I am sure some fans will say increase the commercial offering, and that is what we are doing. Indeed, we had six potential companies at our last game being shown what was on offer and we have a brand new scoreboard going into the stadium.

Things seem to be moving in the right direction. Six potential companies being talked to is far better than having 3 offers on a table, with the final decision being down to the Dynamics of the deal.

I'm sure we all look forward to seeing  who they are and at what level they commit to the Club. I wonder what sort of time frame is being worked to.


It would be a tall ask though, to ask any commercial department to cover the entire club’s wage bill every month.


Has that even been suggested? I can't recall ever reading this on here so presumably it refers to some other social media platform.
I don't do drugs and I don't drink.
At my age I can get the same effect just by standing up too fast.

Topper

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Re: Cleeve in the Norwich paper.
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2022, 11:17:09 AM »
I have to disagree with "Lynski's" post .... Boston, demographically, is no where near as large as King's Lynn, with a population of some 35,000, Lynn has more than 8,000 more inhabitants (Wikapedia). I agree, however with the bulk of "Blue & Golds" post.
The town does not deserve a professional football team. In recent years, the ‘fickle’ fans of King’s Lynn have been fair weather fans ….. not sufficient to support a full time team!

For 70 years I have been following this club and with a whiff of nostalgia, I remember as a lad, the heady days of the ‘old’ Midland League in the 50’s, when teams like Peterborough were regular visitors to the Walks, with gates of a few thousand. I suppose one could argue that, in those days, people had less distractions; cars, mobile phones, personal computers and other high tech devices that seem to preoccupy the modern generation but one just can’t beat standing on the terraces stamping one’s feet to stay warm and feasting on some damned good football.

I despair at the many negative comments about the manager and chairman! I agree the forum, with its ancient roman roots, should be a place for free expression, but some of the vitriolic language on here is so unnecessary. One can express an opinion without resorting to downright nastiness.

Humans have since time immemorial, erred in decision making and running a football club as the chairman does, is no exception but for goodness sake without his money there would not be a club at all.

Having lived and worked overseas for most of my life, I now live in the West Country, and it pains me to witness a ‘village’ club like Forest Green Rovers, getting promoted to League One … all down to one former ‘hippie’ who had a vision, and through his commendable efforts on everything surrounding protecting the climate, and through his ‘Ecotricity’ success, ploughed funds into the club. Not suggesting our current chairman pursues a path in eco correctness, nor do I condone feeding our players vegan food, but for goodness sake, let’s cut Mr. Cleeve some slack.

Sorry if I come across as taking the simple and moral high ground but I feel passionately about our little club and long may it prosper! 

Blueboy

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Re: Cleeve in the Norwich paper.
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2022, 11:37:48 AM »
I think Mr. Cleeve needs to look inwards, not outwards.

Blue_and_Gold

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Re: Cleeve in the Norwich paper.
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2022, 04:40:46 PM »

I have to disagree with "Lynski's" post .... Boston, demographically, is no where near as large as King's Lynn, with a population of some 35,000, Lynn has more than 8,000 more inhabitants (Wikapedia).

I'd have thought that anybody from Lynn would know that Boston is a bigger town than Lynn. The official census in 2021 gives a figure of 70,500 (sorry Wiki).

...................The town does not deserve a professional football team. In recent years, the ‘fickle’ fans of King’s Lynn have been fair weather fans ….. not sufficient to support a full time team!

Having supported the Club for so long, you will know this has always been the case. It's nothing new, and I know Mr Cleeve was warned/informed of this, but I would guess he choose to ignore it. Its not that the town doesn't deserve a full time team, it's probably more true to say that it doesn't warrant one. Deserving doesn't come into it. The Club is 100% under the Chairman's control, and if wishes to fund a full time team (as silly as many think that is), then its up to him. As long as he remembers its 100% his decision, and not to try and blame others (i.e. people who choose not to go to a game for whatever reason) if it costs him more than anticipated.



..........

express an opinion without resorting to downright nastiness.


Nastiness?   :dontknow:

I think far worse has been printed in program notes and the Norwich paper?


.....................but for goodness sake without his money there would not be a club at all


Something that used to be said by a few when Buster was here.

Utter nonsense. There will always be a football club in King's Lynn.


................... for goodness sake, let’s cut Mr. Cleeve some slack.

Maybe you could  have a word with the Chairman and advise him to cut people some  slack with his comments in the Norwich paper and program notes. Continuing to go to war with people he disagrees with / has fallen out with, does no good in any shape or form.

If he wishes to get a point across he needs to learn to not to be so confrontational. It gets him nowhere, apart from generating  further comments from the people he is supposed to be encouraging to spend money at the Club.
I don't do drugs and I don't drink.
At my age I can get the same effect just by standing up too fast.

Mallard

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Re: Cleeve in the Norwich paper.
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2022, 05:50:53 PM »
Interesting  first post Topper ( if indeed it is your first).  Some of the ‘script’ looks familiar.
What if the Hokey Cokey really is what it’s all about ?

AXV

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Re: Cleeve in the Norwich paper.
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2022, 09:00:46 AM »
I have to disagree with "Lynski's" post .... Boston, demographically, is no where near as large as King's Lynn, with a population of some 35,000, Lynn has more than 8,000 more inhabitants (Wikapedia). I agree, however with the bulk of "Blue & Golds" post.
The town does not deserve a professional football team. In recent years, the ‘fickle’ fans of King’s Lynn have been fair weather fans ….. not sufficient to support a full time team!

For 70 years I have been following this club and with a whiff of nostalgia, I remember as a lad, the heady days of the ‘old’ Midland League in the 50’s, when teams like Peterborough were regular visitors to the Walks, with gates of a few thousand. I suppose one could argue that, in those days, people had less distractions; cars, mobile phones, personal computers and other high tech devices that seem to preoccupy the modern generation but one just can’t beat standing on the terraces stamping one’s feet to stay warm and feasting on some damned good football.

I despair at the many negative comments about the manager and chairman! I agree the forum, with its ancient roman roots, should be a place for free expression, but some of the vitriolic language on here is so unnecessary. One can express an opinion without resorting to downright nastiness.

Humans have since time immemorial, erred in decision making and running a football club as the chairman does, is no exception but for goodness sake without his money there would not be a club at all.

Having lived and worked overseas for most of my life, I now live in the West Country, and it pains me to witness a ‘village’ club like Forest Green Rovers, getting promoted to League One … all down to one former ‘hippie’ who had a vision, and through his commendable efforts on everything surrounding protecting the climate, and through his ‘Ecotricity’ success, ploughed funds into the club. Not suggesting our current chairman pursues a path in eco correctness, nor do I condone feeding our players vegan food, but for goodness sake, let’s cut Mr. Cleeve some slack.

Sorry if I come across as taking the simple and moral high ground but I feel passionately about our little club and long may it prosper!

My take on Boston is that they have been playing league football this century and have a much, much nicer ground to visit.
Lynn's also nestled between Norwich and Peterborough.

In regards to Forest Green  They are trailblazing and ethically sound. Their ethos has rightfully garnered international support. I hope they continue to thrive and get out of their current rut.
Also, when it comes to vegan/plant based footballers you have Messi and Aguero topping the list of those who ditch meat for their careers. I don't have the stats, but a wholefood plant based diet is cholesterol free, low fat, improves heart function and highly anti inflammatory,

Colin Fuller

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Re: Cleeve in the Norwich paper.
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2022, 04:30:37 PM »
I am sure there are several reasons Lynn’s attendances are below expectations for a table-topping team. Most clubs on the back of a dismal relegation would face a drop in gate numbers. People want to see a successful team and building that confidence will take more than eight games. Cost of living fears also count as does the attractiveness of the opposition. No disrespect to Alfreton but they are not one of the league’s big draws.
For many people in my senior age group the fear of COVID is still relevant. Promotion of the home games, from general consensus, leaves a lot to be desired.  The official website needs to be more on the ball with that in mind.
As some have already pointed out Mr Cleeve choses to operate as sole owner and therefore must have sanctioned a full-time team.  For that to work a club must have a highly efficient commercial operation to supplement gate and match-day revenue. It doesn’t appear Lynn have that kind of operation in place.
Do we know if a new chief executive is lined up? Surely that is a must appointment if the club are to continue running full-time.
I have followed Lynn since 1961 and I really hope they bounce back with a promotion. But can they realistically look to maintain National League status without big improvements as things stand?



Realist

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Re: Cleeve in the Norwich paper.
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2022, 05:20:39 PM »
What percentage of the crowd is defined as local support? How many, like me, attend from time to time and have never lived in the town? If Mr Cleeve is serious with his his concerns this is the deep down he needs to perform, if not his feasibility work will be null and void. It is certain however that the town appears not to interested in football until something like a play off or advanced cup round is achieved. This is so clear that it is such a perfect indicator to anyone with a slight sense of business. It is never going to be a money maker for the foreseeable, just a local club with the usual ups and downs. Some one  is dreaming, glad it is not my cash!!!.......

Mallard

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Re: Cleeve in the Norwich paper.
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2022, 08:05:33 AM »
Land Lord meets Fake Lord ?
What if the Hokey Cokey really is what it’s all about ?

Squire of Langham

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Re: Cleeve in the Norwich paper.
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2022, 09:28:12 AM »
I've been having a bit of a conversation with Mr Cleeve on this subject on the King's Lynn Town FC Supporters Group.  My stance has always been the price he charges for Concessions and Children.  He asked one supporter to name another club that charges £11 admission for Concessions, the same as Boston Utd. I was able to name 15 yes 15 National League North clubs that charge £11 or less!

Mr Cleeve has also denied that Barrie Pierpoint said that Season Tickets were poor value, he said that Pierpoint wanted better value and incentives.  I have asked what better value and incentives as I haven't seen any.

As yet I have received no response from Mr Cleeve. Another supporter also said pricing was too high, Mr Cleeve's response was that he reduced the price of season tickets and general admission this season so the supporter's point was not arguable.  I replied that it was arguable when Lynn are the most expensive side to watch in the NLN.  I challenged him to name a NLN club that is more expensive than Lynn.  Again I am still awaiting a reply.



 

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