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TonyM

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SC's programme notes re financial situation
« on: September 06, 2023, 09:45:00 AM »
From Brackley thread...

Read SCís programme notes this morning.  Oh my oh my.  Looks like heís very concerned about pay back that loan.  Shame he put the Club in that situation with his failed attempt at staying in the NL.  What happened to the his brainwave of ring fencing £1 from every admission to pay back that loan ?  As for the money the Club is haemorrhaging. With the figures heís quoting why do we have a full time playing staff and paying out for such things as overnight stays.   It seems everything is everyoneís fault where Cleeve is concerned.  Maybe the truth lies closer to home.

Think this probably needs a thread of it's own.  For those that didn't get a programme, essentially SC raised a number of issues (seems he took offence to some fan's comments made to him at an away game)
   *  in 'talks' with DCMS re loan (think it was £400k+ from memory) to convert to shares with these then being donated to the fans, really can't see this as viable and smacks of clutching at straws
   *  wants terms of the loan to be renegotiated as we have been relegated so lost £80k in central funding, surely this would have been matched by reduction in expenditure / player wages?
   *  first payment is 2025 - £58840.54 which is interest, whilst I appreciate this is getting closer it is still a good way off.  If it kept him awake at night then surely should have paid some back after Stevenage game to reduce the capital?  Further payments of £20k twice yearly after that starting in 2026.  Good to see some figures at last as to what any potential investor would be taking on
   *  direct quote "I am upset that these next two matches have not been sponsored and the club really needs the town behind it, as otherwise it simply cannot compete at this level".  For the first part of the sentence, SC has no one to be upset with than himself, he fired Rishi half way through last year and irrespective of whether he was doing a good job or not he was, at least, getting out there and promoting the club to the business community.  As SC must surely realise by now, there is not a long queue of potential sponsors lining up to sponsor games / players and these relationships must be worked on over months, seasons even and it is not just a question of putting a post on Twitter the week before a game and wait for the offers to come rolling in.  As for the second part, the club are probably at, or above, their 'natural' level but some (SC included) seem to think that things 'should' be different - the only way this will be true is if someone makes it different, merely wishing it to be the case will only end in disappointment
   *  there is lots of other stuff about how the budget hasn't been cut by that much and costs are horrendous when we are away but you would have thought by now SC would understand the cashflows of a football operation?  Also says that last home game (Alfreton att 948) left a £4500 shortfall, I do wonder if there are more season ticket holders this season and SC hasn't done his sums

All in all not the most positive of Chairman's messages, guess we wait and see what he puts in the column (assuming he doesn't get AI to write it this Saturday) after 753 turned up on a mild September evening when the league leaders were in town.



Mallard

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Re: SC's programme notes re financial situation
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2023, 10:23:14 AM »
Not forgetting Tony the offer from SC for anyone to come in and pick up the keys ( plus Bills) and run the Club...... is the man wanting out ?

It seems SC has difficulty in grasping the fact he and he alone determines how much the Club spends and him and him alone is ultimately responsible for determining what commercially the Club can pull in.   
What if the Hokey Cokey really is what itís all about ?

Pink

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Re: SC's programme notes re financial situation
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2023, 10:43:16 AM »
From Brackley thread...

Read SCís programme notes this morning.  Oh my oh my.  Looks like heís very concerned about pay back that loan.  Shame he put the Club in that situation with his failed attempt at staying in the NL.  What happened to the his brainwave of ring fencing £1 from every admission to pay back that loan ?  As for the money the Club is haemorrhaging. With the figures heís quoting why do we have a full time playing staff and paying out for such things as overnight stays.   It seems everything is everyoneís fault where Cleeve is concerned.  Maybe the truth lies closer to home.

Think this probably needs a thread of it's own.  For those that didn't get a programme, essentially SC raised a number of issues (seems he took offence to some fan's comments made to him at an away game)
   *  in 'talks' with DCMS re loan (think it was £400k+ from memory) to convert to shares with these then being donated to the fans, really can't see this as viable and smacks of clutching at straws
   *  wants terms of the loan to be renegotiated as we have been relegated so lost £80k in central funding, surely this would have been matched by reduction in expenditure / player wages?
   *  first payment is 2025 - £58840.54 which is interest, whilst I appreciate this is getting closer it is still a good way off.  If it kept him awake at night then surely should have paid some back after Stevenage game to reduce the capital?  Further payments of £20k twice yearly after that starting in 2026.  Good to see some figures at last as to what any potential investor would be taking on
   *  direct quote "I am upset that these next two matches have not been sponsored and the club really needs the town behind it, as otherwise it simply cannot compete at this level".  For the first part of the sentence, SC has no one to be upset with than himself, he fired Rishi half way through last year and irrespective of whether he was doing a good job or not he was, at least, getting out there and promoting the club to the business community.  As SC must surely realise by now, there is not a long queue of potential sponsors lining up to sponsor games / players and these relationships must be worked on over months, seasons even and it is not just a question of putting a post on Twitter the week before a game and wait for the offers to come rolling in.  As for the second part, the club are probably at, or above, their 'natural' level but some (SC included) seem to think that things 'should' be different - the only way this will be true is if someone makes it different, merely wishing it to be the case will only end in disappointment
   *  there is lots of other stuff about how the budget hasn't been cut by that much and costs are horrendous when we are away but you would have thought by now SC would understand the cashflows of a football operation?  Also says that last home game (Alfreton att 948) left a £4500 shortfall, I do wonder if there are more season ticket holders this season and SC hasn't done his sums

All in all not the most positive of Chairman's messages, guess we wait and see what he puts in the column (assuming he doesn't get AI to write it this Saturday) after 753 turned up on a mild September evening when the league leaders were in town.


Thanks for posting that Tony.







Blue_and_Gold

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Re: SC's programme notes re financial situation
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2023, 11:10:05 AM »
Not forgetting Tony the offer from SC for anyone to come in and pick up the keys ( plus Bills) and run the Club...... is the man wanting out ?

It seems SC has difficulty in grasping the fact he and he alone determines how much the Club spends and him and him alone is ultimately responsible for determining what commercially the Club can pull in.

Personally, I don't believe there is a shortage of local business's willing to have a commercial tie up with a local football club.

However................

It appears they are not intetested at the moment!

I'm sure this will change at sometime in the future.
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NORMSKI

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Re: SC's programme notes re financial situation
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2023, 11:19:48 AM »
Sadly this all boils down to SC and it is no use blaming everyone else.
To not have anyone working on the commercial side is ridiculous and the results are there for all to see.
Full time at this level is unsustainable on the average attendances, any one with an ounce of sense can see that.
As with TW having differences with supporters and jumping ship is SC paving the way for something similar.
If we drop down a level or two then at least we will be at a level we can operate, to think NL or EFL is possible is pie in the sky.

One other small point is what ever has happened to KL Ladies, conceded 19 goals in 2 matches and 3 of the 4 award winners from last season are no where to be seen with only Jodie still playing .
Anyone any info ?

Blue_and_Gold

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Re: SC's programme notes re financial situation
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2023, 11:23:51 AM »
Wow Normski.

Very well put!

 :scarf:

With regards to Ladies, it does seem strange that results have been so poor, and that coincides with them now being paid.  :dontknow:
If I ever get outta here I've thought of giving it all away,
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Mallard

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Re: SC's programme notes re financial situation
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2023, 11:58:02 AM »
Norman ski the words nail and head spring to mind.   SC doesnít seem capable of taking any form of negativity toward himself.  He is in sole control of the Club so where would he like to apportion any blame? 

Itís about time he accepted step 1/2 at Kings Lynn was his goal but he seemed to want everybody else to pay for his hobby.  He still bangs on about the Town of Kings Lynn should support his ideal.   Hopefully at some point he will get the message.
What if the Hokey Cokey really is what itís all about ?

Blue_and_Gold

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Re: SC's programme notes re financial situation
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2023, 12:44:29 PM »
From Brackley thread...

Read SCís programme notes this morning.  Oh my oh my.  Looks like heís very concerned about pay back that loan.  Shame he put the Club in that situation with his failed attempt at staying in the NL.  What happened to the his brainwave of ring fencing £1 from every admission to pay back that loan ?  As for the money the Club is haemorrhaging. With the figures heís quoting why do we have a full time playing staff and paying out for such things as overnight stays.   It seems everything is everyoneís fault where Cleeve is concerned.  Maybe the truth lies closer to home.


   *  in 'talks' with DCMS re loan (think it was £400k+ from memory) to convert to shares with these then being donated to the fans, really can't see this as viable and smacks of clutching at straws
   

And only now he wants fan involvement!!!   :banghead;
If I ever get outta here I've thought of giving it all away,
to a registered charity, as all I need is a pint a day, if I ever get outta here.

Mallard

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Re: SC's programme notes re financial situation
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2023, 12:49:09 PM »
Does he ?  I thought he just wanted a way to dig himself out of a financial hole.  One that he himself put the Club in. 
What if the Hokey Cokey really is what itís all about ?

TonyM

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Re: SC's programme notes re financial situation
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2023, 03:17:27 PM »
From Brackley thread...

Read SCís programme notes this morning.  Oh my oh my.  Looks like heís very concerned about pay back that loan.  Shame he put the Club in that situation with his failed attempt at staying in the NL.  What happened to the his brainwave of ring fencing £1 from every admission to pay back that loan ?  As for the money the Club is haemorrhaging. With the figures heís quoting why do we have a full time playing staff and paying out for such things as overnight stays.   It seems everything is everyoneís fault where Cleeve is concerned.  Maybe the truth lies closer to home.


   *  in 'talks' with DCMS re loan (think it was £400k+ from memory) to convert to shares with these then being donated to the fans, really can't see this as viable and smacks of clutching at straws
   

And only now he wants fan involvement!!!   :banghead;

I made a point of reading SC's notes last night but hadn't got round to those in the Alfreton programme which I have now got read and where he explains his thinking on this debt equity swap a bit more.  He links it back to the Crouch report with a misunderstanding / misrepresentation of what that says about clubs fan bases needing to be consulted on certain issues (club colours, badges etc) - this consultation does not need fans to own shares. 

I think this comes back to a fundamental issue for SC, he either can't, or doesn't want to, understand the concept of stakeholders, only shareholders.  Just as a point of note, in neither programme does he talk about 'fan involvement', only for a "small holding ... to be donated to a club fan group"

Blue_and_Gold

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Re: SC's programme notes re financial situation
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2023, 03:31:34 PM »
From Brackley thread...

Read SCís programme notes this morning.  Oh my oh my.  Looks like heís very concerned about pay back that loan.  Shame he put the Club in that situation with his failed attempt at staying in the NL.  What happened to the his brainwave of ring fencing £1 from every admission to pay back that loan ?  As for the money the Club is haemorrhaging. With the figures heís quoting why do we have a full time playing staff and paying out for such things as overnight stays.   It seems everything is everyoneís fault where Cleeve is concerned.  Maybe the truth lies closer to home.


   *  in 'talks' with DCMS re loan (think it was £400k+ from memory) to convert to shares with these then being donated to the fans, really can't see this as viable and smacks of clutching at straws
   

And only now he wants fan involvement!!!   :banghead;

I made a point of reading SC's notes last night but hadn't got round to those in the Alfreton programme which I have now got read and where he explains his thinking on this debt equity swap a bit more.  He links it back to the Crouch report with a misunderstanding / misrepresentation of what that says about clubs fan bases needing to be consulted on certain issues (club colours, badges etc) - this consultation does not need fans to own shares. 

I think this comes back to a fundamental issue for SC, he either can't, or doesn't want to, understand the concept of stakeholders, only shareholders.  Just as a point of note, in neither programme does he talk about 'fan involvement', only for a "small holding ... to be donated to a club fan group"

If fans owned shares, the Directors are working for them. Shareholders need to be reported to by the Directors.

Therefore that's "fan involvement".

Majority shareholders would still be in control, but shareholders have the right to know about important matters, such as the finances of the Club.

Reporting to others? I really can't see this appealing to the Chairman unless as you say, it's clutching at straws.
If I ever get outta here I've thought of giving it all away,
to a registered charity, as all I need is a pint a day, if I ever get outta here.

TonyM

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Re: SC's programme notes re financial situation
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2023, 03:40:13 PM »
From Brackley thread...

Read SCís programme notes this morning.  Oh my oh my.  Looks like heís very concerned about pay back that loan.  Shame he put the Club in that situation with his failed attempt at staying in the NL.  What happened to the his brainwave of ring fencing £1 from every admission to pay back that loan ?  As for the money the Club is haemorrhaging. With the figures heís quoting why do we have a full time playing staff and paying out for such things as overnight stays.   It seems everything is everyoneís fault where Cleeve is concerned.  Maybe the truth lies closer to home.


   *  in 'talks' with DCMS re loan (think it was £400k+ from memory) to convert to shares with these then being donated to the fans, really can't see this as viable and smacks of clutching at straws
   

And only now he wants fan involvement!!!   :banghead;

I made a point of reading SC's notes last night but hadn't got round to those in the Alfreton programme which I have now got read and where he explains his thinking on this debt equity swap a bit more.  He links it back to the Crouch report with a misunderstanding / misrepresentation of what that says about clubs fan bases needing to be consulted on certain issues (club colours, badges etc) - this consultation does not need fans to own shares. 

I think this comes back to a fundamental issue for SC, he either can't, or doesn't want to, understand the concept of stakeholders, only shareholders.  Just as a point of note, in neither programme does he talk about 'fan involvement', only for a "small holding ... to be donated to a club fan group"

If fans owned shares, the Directors are working for them. Shareholders need to be reported to by the Directors.

Therefore that's "fan involvement".

Majority shareholders would still be in control, but shareholders have the right to know about important matters, such as the finances of the Club.

Reporting to others? I really can't see this appealing to the Chairman unless as you say, it's clutching at straws.

I think 'reporting' can be a pretty broad brush, so could be anything from regular monthly meetings to a very bland annual or bi-annual summary and that is assuming the shares are not a different class of share with corresponding reduced rights.  The other factor to consider is what a 'club fan group' would consist of and who might be on the leadership of that group ;)

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Re: SC's programme notes re financial situation
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2023, 04:48:51 PM »
From Brackley thread...

Read SCís programme notes this morning.  Oh my oh my.  Looks like heís very concerned about pay back that loan.  Shame he put the Club in that situation with his failed attempt at staying in the NL.  What happened to the his brainwave of ring fencing £1 from every admission to pay back that loan ?  As for the money the Club is haemorrhaging. With the figures heís quoting why do we have a full time playing staff and paying out for such things as overnight stays.   It seems everything is everyoneís fault where Cleeve is concerned.  Maybe the truth lies closer to home.


   *  in 'talks' with DCMS re loan (think it was £400k+ from memory) to convert to shares with these then being donated to the fans, really can't see this as viable and smacks of clutching at straws
   

And only now he wants fan involvement!!!   :banghead;

I made a point of reading SC's notes last night but hadn't got round to those in the Alfreton programme which I have now got read and where he explains his thinking on this debt equity swap a bit more.  He links it back to the Crouch report with a misunderstanding / misrepresentation of what that says about clubs fan bases needing to be consulted on certain issues (club colours, badges etc) - this consultation does not need fans to own shares. 

I think this comes back to a fundamental issue for SC, he either can't, or doesn't want to, understand the concept of stakeholders, only shareholders.  Just as a point of note, in neither programme does he talk about 'fan involvement', only for a "small holding ... to be donated to a club fan group"

If fans owned shares, the Directors are working for them. Shareholders need to be reported to by the Directors.

Therefore that's "fan involvement".

Majority shareholders would still be in control, but shareholders have the right to know about important matters, such as the finances of the Club.

Reporting to others? I really can't see this appealing to the Chairman unless as you say, it's clutching at straws.

I think 'reporting' can be a pretty broad brush, so could be anything from regular monthly meetings to a very bland annual or bi-annual summary and that is assuming the shares are not a different class of share with corresponding reduced rights.  The other factor to consider is what a 'club fan group' would consist of and who might be on the leadership of that group ;)

If they were shares for equity in the company (Club) they would be ordinary shares with voting rights.

The articles of memorandum would dictate what the reporting entailed. If they are deemed to be inadequate for such things as reporting, they could be amended.

I don't think anyone would expect to get away with trying to issue B shares in exchange for cancelling or paying some of the debt.

If I ever get outta here I've thought of giving it all away,
to a registered charity, as all I need is a pint a day, if I ever get outta here.

Mallard

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Re: SC's programme notes re financial situation
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2023, 06:20:03 PM »
If as being suggested the debt is circa £450k, including the interest.  How much of the equity is SC looking to hand over in exchange for that kinda money ?  What are the assets of the Club and how much is the goodwill valued at ?   

All that debt and thatís before the Directors loans come into play.   Canít really see any group queueing for this one.  How many Clubs have the DCMS offered this deal to?  Or is it just a case of wishful thinking?
What if the Hokey Cokey really is what itís all about ?

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Re: SC's programme notes re financial situation
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2023, 06:50:02 PM »
If as being suggested the debt is circa £450k, including the interest.  How much the equity is SC looking to hand over in exchange for that kinda money ?  What are the assets of the Club and how is the goodwill valued at ?   

All that debt and thatís before the Directors loans come into play.   Canít really see any group queueing for this one.  How many Clubs have the DCMS offered this deal to?  Or is it just a case of wishful thinking?

Reading the program notes I don't think the DCMS have offered the deal to any other clubs as it seems that it's a proposal that Cleeve has put to them.

The Chairman's valuation of the Club will be interesting. I can't think of any reason that figure can't be declared now as it will give the supporters an idea what we are up against and of course will have to be declared if there is a transfer of equity for writing part of the debt off.

Whatever it may currently say on the balance sheet is largely irrelevant.
If I ever get outta here I've thought of giving it all away,
to a registered charity, as all I need is a pint a day, if I ever get outta here.

 

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