What’s going on ?

[Blue_and_Gold]

Kieran whatever you may think about ambition how do you fund a playing staff of in excess of £1m on gates of a 1000. ? You do the math and let’s us know the answer.

Well Mallard, I keep trying to make it add up and have done for a long time.

I keep coming up with the same answer..........you don't.

I'll listen to anyone that has got the answer though.

[Mallard]

In the same way Kieran would you be happy if the Club went pop again because of the ambition that couldn’t be sustained?

SC ran out of cash to support it earlier this season and was in days of shutting the doors. 

[kieranuptoon]

In the same way Kieran would you be happy if the Club went pop again because of the ambition that couldn’t be sustained?

SC ran out of cash to support it earlier this season and was in days of shutting the doors.

I am not shocked you dodged my question. 

[Mallard]

I was gutted when we got relegated from the NL after SC borrowed £500k to stay up. I was even more gutted when we went out of business under Bobbins and ended up in the UCL.

Still waiting to hear how you would balance the books and how it would be if we went pop
Again.   No rush take ya time

[Blue_and_Gold]

Kieran whatever you may think about ambition how do you fund a playing staff of in excess of £1m on gates of a 1000. ? You do the math and let’s us know the answer.

There is one club in the National League that turn a profit. The fact football clubs lose money isn’t a new and fresh idea.

Kieran, surely that's the point and what people are saying is actually wrong. Nobody said it's a new or fresh idea, in fact quite the opposite. People are getting sick and tired of a few people playing Russian roulette with the Clubs they have supported, some for decades.

It's hardly justification for Chairmen to saddle Clubs with debt and risk it's very survival.

I'm sure it is a fact, but surely you don't think it's right and how it should be? 

[Hello Kitty.]

I wonder how many fans would be perfectly happy to see the Club at step 3 with a part time squad, self sufficient in terms of outgoings be fully supported by income.  With a locally based team with a locally based Manager ?

What a terrible thing to say. Clueless & ridiculous. Zero ambition on this forum.

 

Back at you Kieran.its probably one of the most sensible things I've heard.
What's wrong with having the ambition to stop the club you support from going bust?
On this forum?Don't know what you are comparing it with to say that?Surely not the clueless  drivel we see on Facebook?
So what's your plan for the future?Are you going to remortgage your house and give your own money to Mr Cleeve so the club can keep paying to play at a level it can't afford?Or are you expecting someone else to pay for that?
Come on,show us the ambition you talk about. 🤣

No idea why you’re piping up, all you are is a massive negative Nelly!!

Never usually see you on here after wins, just sniping from the sidelines after a loss. How many times have you actually been to The Walks?

 

No answer then,just insults.
Then you accuse others of swerving! 

[happymondays]

Absolute silence from Cleeve and the club...just keep paying your £21 little people...obviously the cash didn't come from Singapore Joe after all.

[A Well Wisher]

B & G that’s the sensible approach but when people with lots of reddies come along they turn it upside down and fans expect more especially when the the new money promises or has a vision.
Logically with the current attendance Step4 is probably our level.

Step 4?! We're a much bigger club than the vast majority down at step 4. Step 2 is our level for me at the present moment and we should try to maintain that. Even at step 3 we are one of the more larger clubs.

[Blue_and_Gold]

B & G that’s the sensible approach but when people with lots of reddies come along they turn it upside down and fans expect more especially when the the new money promises or has a vision.
Logically with the current attendance Step4 is probably our level.

Step 4?! We're a much bigger club than the vast majority down at step 4. Step 2 is our level for me at the present moment and we should try to maintain that. Even at step 3 we are one of the more larger clubs.

As disappointing as it is, it would seem that financially we can't afford this level.

[Quinn Upstone]

I'm not usually stuck for words...but what the (insert your own expletive) is going on at our club ?????

Just when it looked like things were getting back on track with Joe, Cleeve is trying to flog our club behind our backs. Or bits of it. Why didn't he let supporters know or speak to the trust ?

And I simply don't believe that such a small amount of debt can be accurate.

And I don't believe that Jo and/or Cleeve paid off thousands of pounds of debt, just to walk away with perhaps just a season ticket and a scarf as a momento !!!

So much for our improved media and Cleeve going quiet now appears to be a desperate hope that buyers won't do any due diligence.

Has all this just been done recently as a quick paint job hoping to cover up the cracks to put us on the market before it all falls down.

And never forget that he has the lease so he won't go quietly...

My take on the questions you raise.

1) His club, not ours. That's been made very clear.

2) The Trust are supporters. One and the same thing.

3) I don't think anyone has suggested that Jo has paid off any of the debts.

4) I guess the wording on debt is accurate when it says only 17k  of BANK debt. Other debt is not with the Bank.

5) Media can only go with information they are given. As long as they publish information as soon as they receive it, that's an improvement to what we had previously. If they weren't informed, they couldn't really inform us.

6) It's the Club (Lynn FC Ltd) that has the lease, not Cleeve.

7) Not sure about terming it a quick paint job in an attempt to cover up the cracks as nothing has really changed since day one. Some just choose to ignore things.

 

Thanks for your help with clarifying some of my thoughts. I'll try to respond to your points.

1) Unfortunately I agree with this one. I was so taken aback that I became delirious and entered a parallel universe where we actually had some control over the club.

2) It wasn't my intention to suggest that the trust members are not supporters of the club. I apologise for my clumsiness.

3) and 4) I agree with your analysis.

5) I agree that the current media setup is much better than it's been in a long time, which is to be applauded. My point here was a cynical suggestion that it has only been improved to impress any potential buyers.

6) Thanks for clarifying this one for me. Could you perhaps outline what impact this could have in the future i.e. post-Cleeve.

7) I'm perhaps sceptical about Cleeve's intentions. I believe that he's trying to create an imaginary club for buyers and he's being shady...at the very least.

6) The lease is an asset of the Limited Company (Lynn FC Ltd), and not a personal asset of Cleeve's. I doubt its of much use to anyone other than someone that want's to run a Football Club from it. I have no idea what value it has placed on it. The lease has been extended (so new investors could be found), so it has got the benefit of a long lease.

I would guess the stated book value could be quite high and form a sizeable % of what the Club is valued at. i.e. on paper probably one of, if not the, main assets.   

The problem here could be two parties agreeing what the true value of the lease (and any other asset) really is. Its true value will be debatable, even with the benefit of the rent being Peppercorn.

My thoughts are it will probably be one of the main points during discussions with any potential investors.

As with most things, the true value can only be ascertained when buyers and sellers agree a price.

Regarding your question regarding the situation "Post Cleeve", that depends why he has become "Post". If the lease reverts back to the Council, who knows what the outcome will be. They have hardly covered themselves in glory in the past, although there is fresh blood in there these days, so hopefully there would be some Blue Sky thinking.

B&G, thanks for your explanation re the lease. I'm afraid some of this financial, business and ownership stuff makes my brain ache. It all makes as much sense to me as NFTs. And that's zero.

Think I'll stick to my Sudoku.

[rod]

I believe that trying to determine the optimum sustainable level for our club is in a way 'putting the cart ahead of the horse'. In my opinion the current owner's strategy has alienated a significant number supporters, some of whom over many years willingly gave up their time to volunteer, taking on various rolls including fundraising. Additionally from the outset the cost of sponsoring the club allied to the owner failing to 'sell' his business model to them meant many last minute attempts to find such as a match sponsor. By way of comparison, in years gone by many individual player sponsorships would be signed up ahead of the season ! How many.of the current squad are sponsored ?
    Overlay all of that with a seeming inability or unwillingness to really connect with supporters, through understanding the difference between a supporter who feels a part of the club and a customer.

I for one would welcome back a club that is genuinely part of the community, that was part time and who attracted local players, even if they did not come through our much heralded academy. Just the occasional local breaking through into the first team squad, for me would add considerable value to the match day experience.....Dare i mention Jack Defty ?!

If that all came to pass at steps two, three or even four i would be delighted and who is to say that with the right set up that step two is not sustainable ??

[Mallard]

Great offer has come through from the Club

December games are now on sale with a special Black Friday offer giving you £10 off  all adult and concession tickets if you buy a package ticket for both the Scarborough match onSaturday 7th December and Alfreton onSaturday 14th December meaning that 2 standing match tickets will cost you just £14 each!


Great deal for the fans  this, unless you are a season ticket holder.

[Blue_and_Gold]

Great offer has come through from the Club

December games are now on sale with a special Black Friday offer giving you £10 off  all adult and concession tickets if you buy a package ticket for both the Scarborough match onSaturday 7th December and Alfreton onSaturday 14th December meaning that 2 standing match tickets will cost you just £14 each!


Great deal for the fans  this, unless you are a season ticket holder.

That's a VERY good deal.

Chairman must be in the Christmas spirit already.   

It's not the usual way he goes about things, and with Jo and Bal supposedly coming fully on board soon and the additional revenue that should bring in, I do wonder why this is being done now. 

[Mallard]

Maybe it’s a big push to bring in money to help things along into the new year.  Was round about this time last year when it seems money ran tight.  So makes  sense to get some marketing ideas out there.   I just hope  it doesn’t involved a sale of any assets. Wasn’t it just after Christmas that Adam Crowther was sold to Southend?

[Blue_and_Gold]

I just hope  it doesn’t involved a sale of any assets. Wasn’t it just after Christmas that Adam Crowther was sold to Southend?

I can't see a repeat of last season. This squad is only just strong enough as it is without losing someone.

Management will be well aware of that.